I know envato has a policy abou this, but i would say such a policy should not be the norm.
My account has quite some items, half of the items are removed from the marketplace.
If i pay for something, I want the item…
I didn’t store all my downloads on a fysical disk, or on dropbox, and i’m not planning to do so neither… I buy a lot of content like this online, and if i need to store everything, it’s gonna cost me money. I can’t understand envato publishers can remove stuff later again. Adjust the policy to authors please: sold is sold. Point…
If now and then an item is removed, no problem… But half?? i paid more then 100$ for this… Not acceptable!
The policy you know about gives copyright to the auhtor so envato have no control.
If they change this - it is not a small job, it will mean altering the fundamental way the marketplace operates and have knock on impact on support, cost, and much more. Authors will likely go elsewhere and the marketplace choice and quantity will suffer.
The only reason other similar marketplaces don’t suffer from the problem as much is because they own all the files for sale there (hence why there are far less and generally speaking no where near as good).
We’ve bought more than most and also have had several removed. That said, we agreed to this risk when we bought the items and given we are getting something worth thousands of $ for a tiny fraction of its value - it’s a risk most would be willing to take.
Again I am not debating or disagreeing that it is frustrating - I am just explaining the alternative view point and actual benefits of the way envato operates.
Still, once an item is bought, it could stay up for download for those who bought it…
The link could be hidden for those who didn’t buy it previously, but I thought once you paid for it, you should at least have acces to the item for as long as the license is valid.
There is no way this would disrupt the marketplace at all.
I’m sorry, but I paid hundreds of dollars on items in this store, I don’t buy stuff to see it removed for whatever reason…
hi, no matter what, failing to save is not a good way to do and is not an option … u never know what may happen and saving is always a smart move, whether this is buyer , and even more , author’s side, u should try to think about it for the future, to be safe … . as for the policies, there are many things that are done and that either buyers or authors do not like but they have to accommodate so do not wait for anything to change, even if u are a buyer and u are complaining about somethign that looks not cool according to u …
upvato: i would never trust a site like this. Probably it’s set up by a warez group our something, who will then release all items for free on the internet…
And honestly, nobody ever told me that i should back up my items. The deletion also didn’t happen slowly. suddenly i log in and half my items are removed… That’s rude and costs me money.
While I do sympathise with the frustration and I know that people never read the terms and conditions that we agree to it does state:
“we and the authors do not promise that any particular item will continue to be available on Envato Market so you should download and save the item as soon as you buy it;”
I am not even sure there is not a warning during the purchase process (not buying soemhting to test it I am afraid).
On the other point:
What if there is a copyright issue? Envato cannot continue to make that i.e. something potentially illegal, accessible?
This comes down to what we said earlier about who owns the files - as it is envato are biggest /best partly because they don’t own copyright to the files. This also means that they have zero right to retain files which authors choose to remove. That’s the same with the app store, Google Play etc.
Of course it would be good if envato could change their terms on this with authors but you can imagine that updating every author’s agreement is a big consideration and one which would impact on not just removed items.
In so many of these cases envato are trapped between a rock and a hard place and will never be able to please everyone but their move in support policies does actually benefit this type of situation - before if an author removed the file that was it. Now under their new support policy, at least if it is within the first 6 months (or paid for extension) period then even should the author remove a file they need to maintain support of it.
Again I do share your frustration but do think there is a bigger picture view which is not envato’s fault, and if we are going to spend even $50 for soemhting that is worth thousands then it is only fair to accept a degree of risk.
Terms of buying: When you buy an Envato Market item
you’re doing so on the following terms:
a. you promise to us and the author that you have carefully considered the
suitability of your chosen license, and that you have chosen
appropriately;
b. you cannot cancel a completed purchase of an item;
c. we and the authors do not promise that any particular item will continue
to be available on Envato Market so you should download and save the item
as soon as you buy it;
I agree with topic starter. Such policy and practice is not acceptable. If a buyer bought a copy of item then it his property and he mustn’t worry about it. And no matter what written at #100500 page of policy – sold is sold. Author has rights for removing an items from his portfolio, but it must be still available in buyer’s account. Otherwise that just unfair.
@ittaidv Try to connect with item’s author and ask about a copy. I think almost all authors will be glad to provide a copies.
I honestly don’t think it has anything to do with envato’s policy - that is just reinforcing the rules.
I am not saying this makes it right or any less annoying - but there must be a reason (almost certain it is under copyright law) that everyone including Apple, Google and pretty much every other one, do it and why envato cannot/will not change it.
@charlie4282 You pay $50 for something that is worth thousands, thats true, but in the end, the author is getting the thousands AND WAY MORE then what it was originally worth. Thats the main reason so many authors are on Envato, the dream of making a 100k of a days work thats in reality only worth 500 bucks.
There is no copyright law that states that Envato cannot keep backups of the files the users has bought. If the author doesn’t want to sell the item, then so be it, remove it from the marketplace. But it’s absolutely not necessary to remove the “backup” from users downloads list. All in all, all Envato has to do, is ask the buyer for permission to host the file on their behalf. The author has absolutely no say in it.
I fully accept that I am not a lawyer, but am certain that if Apple and Google do this then there is a good chance that there is a very valid reason for it.
If I email iTunes and tell/ask them to reactivate an app download which has since been removed do you think they will do it?
Just to reiterate - I am not against this idea, I am merely explaining that it is probably unavoidable.
Maybe if authors had some kind of ‘opt-in’ for this being allowed then that would be different as then at least the copyright holder is giving express permission. (This is assuming it is not down to a copyright infringement, broken etc.).
@charlie4282 Care to try and explain the difference between “You acquire the right to use that item” and “You own that item” ?
To me, and my laywer, there is no difference. You have just worded it in a specific way.
I’m pretty sure Apple and Google along with Envato all practice this way to save money. At the same time, for providers like Apple and Google, it’s really pointless to have somthing up there that is no longer maintained, after all, their “apps” depends on being compatible with the device, thats not the case for Envato. We, the developers and buyers decide whats compatible or not, not Envato, Google or Apple.
As it says ‘you acquire the right to use that item’ and ‘you’re not actually acquiring the item itself.’
You might ‘own’ a copy in the sense that you downloaded the source but it is a licensed and restricted ‘right to use’ version which does not make you the ultimate copyright owner (otherwise there would be no restrictions).
Buy an App on the App store - The copyright remains with the developer/Apple
License a copy of MSOffice - Micrsosoft still ultimately own copyright on Office
License a copy of Adobe Photoshop (either old way with CDs or CC) - Adobe still own copyright on Photoshop
If buying a file meant you are the copyright owner and as you put it ‘The author has absolutely no say in it’, then there would be no restrictions like envato’s terms, you could share, use the file as many times as you like, even upload it to and sell on another marketplace, or whatever you wanted. We all know this is not allowed.
You cant actually sell artwork and it will always belong to the creator of the art, that be a PSD, Painting or any other form of creative art.
In that sense, you never really own anything, as everything comes with a license that is restricted by the artist. That be if you have an exclusive license or a limited license.
Calling it a “License” is just fancy laywer bullshit talk. Made to confuse you so they can try and screw you over with word-babbling if they feel like it. Technically and theoretically, you OWN the file, and you own all the rights to use it, rights that can never be revoked, but you have restrictions on what you can do with it.
No one here is stating that you own the copyright to the file, i’m stating that you own the file and the right to do with it as you please, except re-sell it, which is initially all the license say.
Remember, no written agreement made by a company over-rules the law! They can write whatever they want, but if it goes agains or contradicts the law it’s no longer valid and can be looked away from.
If you own the files under the agreed license but the copyright is retained by the creator then the creator has the right to remove the file if they want.
I never said you could not keep using the file (that’s even in envato T&Cs) - just that phrases like
are not accurate to the original issue of authors/envato removing files - the author has everything to do with choosing if the file is removed.
For what it’s worth and in the interest only of clarity
The license restricts a lot more than just reselling e.g. free distribution, use on multiple sites etc.
The author has absolutely no say in where you backup your files. Don’t twist my words.
Envato recommend and applaud that you backup the items you download from Envato. Unless that’s illegal as well, then who says that Envato cannot be that backup service?
There is a difference between keep selling a file an author no longer wants to sell, and keeping the file for existing buyers as a backup. To do so, all they need to do is ask the buyer for permission, the author has no say in it.
All completely right and I never said otherwise nor am I twisting anyone’s words.
All my points are in regard to the author’s choice to remove the file form envato if they chose to do so.
As envato currently operates and is now they could not keep the file available to buyers without permission from the author (as you said yourself the copyright holder).
If as you suggest here they had a stand alone service to back up files then that maybe different but this is the first time that concept is mentioned in this thread.
ANY File you download from Envato comes in a zip file. I always store my zip files in a backup in case the file is removed. When you save the downloaded zip file you can always reinstall it if need be. Always keep those zip files in back up, and always keep a file that you back up properly.
potato potatoe… Really, i don’t care about the legallity behind this. I also didn’t start this discussion to get all the legal implications, that’s stuff envato should take care of, not me.
I paid to use those files, if they were still on my computer i would be able to use them still. I don’t think it’s that difficult to implement for envato to say to authors that those buyers who already paid, should be able to download the files forever.
Like I said, this costs me lots of money. I try to do things the legal way, and pay authors in order they can sell a file thousands of times to different customers. They get paid very well for what they do. If envato takes back files, whithout any warning, i find that very abusive, especially since we’re talking about multiple expensive files here. At least a little warning: you have 1 month to backup your items could help already a lot…
I don’t backup all my files locally. And i don’t intend to do so. I’m customer in many marketplaces, if I would backup all stock video, photo’s, music,… I would need a huge NAS, and as everyone knows, even with a harddisk things can go wrong. I would not mind paying a little for bandwidth costs to download the file multiple times though.
Now i log in, and suddenly half of my items is removed. I’m really not going to mail to all authors to get back my files, there’s too many of them anyway, and it would cost me a lot of hours, which i’m paid for normally as a freelancer.
I think people should really consider if cheaper is that much better. At least I’m convinced that I won’t return to this scamming site again. Better pay a few bucks more and be guaranteed to have those files.
