Category Page Update

Hey James,

The thing is, earlier in this thread you mentioned:

So to repeat my own questions in this same thread here: Category Page Update – do you think it is fair to ask authors to pay to drive traffic to Envato, only for users to be greeted with a bar at the top of the page offering what can be perceived to be the same product, for cheaper?

Don’t you feel that if Envato’s stance is now that Authors should be paying to drive traffic to their items, we should be given certain tools to assist with our doing this, one being as simple as a query URL to hide the elements banner?

I’m a Power Elite author here, I’m about to have my worst sales month since April 2013 and I have noticed a sharp downturn in item page views and sales since the category page changes. If a change that Envato makes has a negative impact on my sales experience and the remedy for that is for Envato to tell me to spend more money driving traffic to my item pages, don’t you feel I should have more control in what is displayed on the item page?

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If quality so important, maybe Envato can change search system (to add more relevance to quality items and move down cheap items with low quality). I create topic a few months ago with very simple idea how to add more relevance to quality items (by earnings, not by sales quantity). There are many similar simple ways how to do that. Main idea to move down cheap and low quality content from top of search and give more relevance to more brilliant tracks with higher earnings. Because now low quality with low price can give better promotion than great quality content… I believe it can be great investment to quality.

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Why you wouldn’t let the authors to choose what sorting they prefer? Using the cache, you can save their last or default sorting based on their own preference. Let the customer choose Newest, Best sellers, Best rated or other sorting method on first page.

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Good change with the sorting buttons!

About other complaints: Ok, we bring our own traffic, but can we at least have more analytics like conversion rates for the traffic that we bring to our own items? How can we invest in advertising if you can not know if it’s profitable or not? The affiliate platform is the only way to track conversions, but it only works for new users, what about the other existing users that we reactivate?

One last thing, make sure authors don’t abuse the sorting feature: https://themeforest.net/category/ecommerce/prestashop?_ga=2.48785440.786859122.1559068053-637280070.1551119665&sort=price-desc

Hi @jamesgiroux

I would like to echo the others who have mentioned that including @collis in this thread is actually highly necessary in this very important discussion. If there is indeed more then 0% respect for the authors here, an intervention is needed. We need someone here that is allowed to talk frankly and directly about these difficult topics.

We are not only talking about a tweak to the sorting pills here, you are in fact telling authors that they need to start driving traffic to their new items to a site which does not have a system ready for distributing that traffic in an ethical way. Right now it’s a solid misleading mess between the market and Elements.

There is no long term solution to continue to sweep this under the carpet and unlist uncomfortable topics like you do here: I was mislead about a subscription! These topics are already beyond awkwardly painful and I don’t think anyone really disagrees with that.

It is in no way acceptable to treat customers like this, nor is it acceptable to use moderators and authors to do this ungrateful and unnecessary job of explaining why the market itself is not “unlimited downloads”.

If you are going to ignore all the difficult questions, what is the point of having this thread open for authors? Then it would make more sense to close it down already.

There are many great questions here that deserves answers but I would especially like to see direct answers/explanations to these solid points made by others here:

This needs a reply.

This needs a reply.

This needs a reply.

This needs a reply.

Thank you.

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hello @jemesgiroux i have seen this page but there is no icon…

@jamesgiroux As we are always trying to be constructive, here’s a suggestion to your growth team. I’m not sure how your A/B tests are setup but it seems that you are only looking at the “total” metrics (i.e. general conversion rate change on the entire ThemeForest). Probably the better way to track results is by calculating earnings/conversions for each author separately, then taking the median value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median This approach usually gives much more realistic picture of the current state of the marketplace, as it “cuts” those with the highest and lowest earnings. And since this is an author-driven marketplace, I think Envato should focus on “average authors” first.

Someone here mentioned about “middle-class” issue, which I also believe is the most important factor for a long term success.

Cheers!

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I think this backhand return flew way out of the court, since it was your original suggestion of authors doing their own marketing which prompted the discussion here.

@jamesgiroux If you won’t entertain this discussion on this thread, please can you (or anyone) point me to the threads where there has been a proper discussion, between the authors and Envato, about the fairness of having an advertising banner to a competing product, especially for those loyal and exclusive Market sellers whom you claim to care so much about, and also how it’s fair that Market-only authors should pay for marketing as you’ve suggested, only to then inadvertently drive customers to Elements via the banner? I’ve had a look and I can’t find them.

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Well, I looked a bit harder and I managed to find this response from 2 years ago buried in the ThemeForest forum. Wondering if anyone other than the 25 authors involved in that thread has seen this? And if not, perhaps there is a way we can open up this discussion to all authors so we can talk about it openly and plainly, addressing the issue that has been raised here?

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There are some good points here, and I agree that Envato shouldn’t be blamed altogether for low or no sales, there are things that authors should do (better), like, adapting to changes etc.
But, I believe that majority of authors are not lazy (I know I’m not) to deal with marketing. They simply lack knowledge, skills or resources to deal with that. Many authors joined Envato so they wouldn’t have to do the marketing and concentrate to creating stuff. Heck, that was the Envato’s slogan - remember “You do the creative, we’ll do the rest” (paraphrased) ?
Envato has changed, and has different interests than before and those interests certainly align less and less with (such) authors.

In that post I mostly said about strategies inside markets. Like analyzing trends and demands, what specific items to upload, what amount of items, how often to update and so on. It is really more about demands and supply for that demands, we live in a fast changing world.

e.g. on VH Earlier I was aimed more on Corporate type of projects now it’s more about App promo related projects for me because demand for this grew massively

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7 projects in 1 month
here it is the result of experiments

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Why this disturbance?!, I think all were happy before this experiment. Envato can increase its earning but not on the authors shoulders. Please try to gain their cooperation not their effort.

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This new category filter kill our items and sales! We stopped uploading new themes until Envato will start doing some actions to get back Newest items filtration!

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@jamesgiroux Please, tell me, what your lawyers say, according to the laws of the United States. Is it such aggressive promotion of Elements in the main markets with the help of an advertising banner (top of the site, shopping cart, product pages of the authors) unfair competition against a huge number of authors not related to the Elements?

In response, I think it makes no sense for you to repeat your words that this banner is for attracting new types of customers, and therefore this banner does not harm the authors of the main markets, because even without data it is obvious that this banner can also entice regular customers of markets and those, who could stay in the main markets, but you redirected them to Elements. A banner in the basket (which you have already removed) evidence of this.

Essentially you are like Google for digital products. To be registered in your search, you check our work, we pay you for hosting and a payment gateway, but at some point, using your dominant position, you start to advertise your product, which harms other market participants. Also, I did not find in the condition of the author agreement with you that you have the right to advertise competitive products on the item pages of the authors. Due to the fact that many of your markets are have no competition among other companies, and your markets are still the main source of income for many authors who need to support themselves and their families, they cannot leave your markets as a matter of urgency. Therefore, you can continue to mock authors with your innovations as much as you want and not listen to what they say to you. You put them in such a position that they cannot leave your market as soon as possible, because of the reason that I’ve pointed above, but the same time because of your innovations the sales began to fall and they need to advertise their products themselves (which is logical), but at the same time you make a banner ad for a market that has the same categories of goods but with dumped price in relation to the main markets. Essentially you redirect the visitors that authors bring in to increase your own profit with the help of Elements.

But let’s postpone the moral and ethical side of your actions, it is simply not available here. I am interested, from the point of view of US laws, in this situation are you acting in the legal field? Perhaps there are no violations, I do not know, that why I ask. But if how you act was from the very beginning, then each author would choose whether he would agree to this before it was too late or grow their business on the other market or the other way, but not now when you have allowed all authors to grow their business on your platform and then you decide to increase your own profit of using the difficult position of authors who cannot leave your market quickly.

UPD: When I wrote in the in third paragraph that you as Google, I mean, for example, Google company tells you “- Hey, pay us for our AdWords and your site will be shown in our search as advertising on the key requests you need.” You pay, and Google starts to show your site, but when people go to the link, in the top of your site Google by Chrome adds a banner ad of their product that is competitive to your one. Is it fair competition? Some may say that Google is a business, and if you don’t like it, you can leave, but the fact is that when a company takes a monopoly position, other laws begin to come into force and other circumstances are taken into account.

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Envato still has a banner on checkout page. Right now they run 40% OFF campaign, but usually it shows “Unlimited Elements”.

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I think what all authors need to realize is that Envato has devised a plan to take 50% control of all assets for sale. With Elements on the rise that shared revenue strategy is fixed at 50% - Envato earns more, authors earn less. Great strategy on the part of Envato, shocking that authors very early on did not fight for higher commission rates. To those threatening to leave or go to other markets, again Envato does not care because if you switch to non-exclusive they benefit from the reduced commission rates from anything they sell. Hence they do not care if you take your stock to another market. Secondly, there are always new authors discovering this as a place to sell their stock media so just because you may no longer like the working terms, someone is always in line willing to give it a go. Thirdly, of course they want everyone to do their own marketing and drive people to the site. They have always wanted that and always had that going on. But indeed what is the point of driving traffic to your own page only to be guided to a banner ad advertising 80 to 95% discount off products you are offering in the one off license model?

What are Market only authors to do now? Nothing…pray for voluntary charity from customers who have a budget and are willing to license your item, while at the same time start looking for a new job and new revenue streams. This low revenue problem is only going to get worse for individual authors.

The writing is on the wall, every tactic that Envato has put into action is done with the intent to redirect revenue away from authors and into their business. The sooner everyone admits that the situation is hopeless, the better your mental health will become. Subscription is a game changer. By embracing it, you resign yourself to becoming a full time slave living within the controlling authorities rules of engagement that serve their interests first.

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close, but no cigar.

100% agree, I also think that sooner or later support will be mandatory for all Elements products.

Support is 100% irrelevant to music files. Customers pay $16.50 a month and have the right to download 13,000 music files and counting. Compare that to the rest of us trying to sell one license into one project for $20 to $50. Oh, but there are “different types of customers” and “we need to do external marketing to drive customers to our home page.” and…we need to adapt to new trends. What trend? The only trend I see is the price getting undercut and devalued by 95%!

oops I am off topic!

Newest item, best match, best selling, lowest price, trending, highest price…does any of that really matter when the entire stock media market has been so insanely undercut by a competing subscription model?

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