You do find fun stuff here & there, I must say… hahah
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An “All for one” method to this is absolutely stupid in my opinion. I’ve been here since 2008. I think it’s ridiculous that Envato expects all of us to sign our work away and jump into a void with zero information.
I also think it’s stupid for Envato to even want to mess with AI in this way at all. AI can be useful for helping doing tasks faster and the like, but straight up replacing authors is literally anti Envato.
So if I’m understanding Bens statement here, you are automatically enrolled in this if you don’t specifically opt-out (an cannot opt-out in anything after the fact). However, opting out voids you from participating in other deals not regarding AI? And this applies perpetually? Does this mean deals like items showing up on Shutterstock (which was listed as a “pro” to this deal) won’t happen unless you opt in to all the other stuff? Or is that portion not included in the “third party deals”?
How on Earth can Envato spin this to be beneficial to authors? I think you guys will be hard pressed to find most of us willing to give our work away for this. Some of us are literally not allowed to due to PROs.
I know Ben and KingDog here are just the messengers and I want to make clear I mean no disrespect to any of the team as you guys are just doing your jobs. I love you guys. However, I think moves like these are not focused on benefiting Authors.
I made peace with some other things here, but in this case with the AI stuff, I don’t think I personally can.
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By using words as “opportunities” and “exploring new revenue streams”. It seems quite obvious that Shutterstock is pulling the strings on this move, Envato is probably only the messenger here. It’s a hard sell, and that’s why there is opt out instead of opt in.
If third-party distribution on other sites really were of interest here wouldn’t it make much more sense to collect a strongly curated selection of handpicked authors and pitch the best material to other sites? Using proper music titles etc
The only real motive behind this must be to ingest MASSIVE amounts of tracks into AI training and having authors agreeing to something they have no idea what they are agreeing to, something that seems like an “opportunity you can miss out on”.
Sadly most authors will probably stay opted in as it requires no action. But we are actually presented with a real opportunity here, which is to opt out.
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Seems risky for Envato to use others intellectual property without the authors permission and a signed agreement.
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Opted out, too big a risk on my intellectual property when details are unknown about how this deal can be beneficial to me. Also I am concerned about the stance of how AI will impact the use of sample libraries when I have agreed to the TOC’s.
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It’s not risky, just like last year when they changed the Tos overnight and forced every author on the market and EE (except audio, code and web) to agree to feed AI after June 1st 2023 with the excuse of unlocking new revenue streams…The other option was to compleatly remove your portfolio from the market.
@BenLeong Any news instead for the rest of the community about this announcement? Update to Elements Author Agreement and Market Author Terms
It’s been over a year, the topic is closed and we had no updates whatsoever.
Thanks!
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8 posts were split to a new topic: MotionArray terms discussion (moved from Envato 3rd Party thread)
Just because they already pulled that lame trick doesn’t mean it’s not risky. If it comes to a legal action and they try to argue that opting in everyone by default, unless they actively opt out, equates to an agreement with authors, they’ll be laughed off court.
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Just opted-out. I hope they provide us with clearer information before July 29th so we don’t feel compelled to choose between signing a blank check or be left out something nobody knows exactly what it is about, how it will affect us, or how much we’d eventually receive from this new “distribution & licensing” deals with who knows who.
I’m grateful, though, for being informed in advance and for having the chance to opt out.
Let’s wait. As for now, I’m out.
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It would be a good idea to first understand what amounts are involved before making an offer. Otherwise, it turns out that we will give the AI the opportunity to learn on our tracks for pennies, and then we will lose our jobs altogether because the AI will generate music based on our tracks. And dear Envato, please stop creating statements like “we care about the authors” and “an additional source of income.” Everyone has known for a long time that you see nothing but money, and you always didn’t give a damn about the authors!
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I support the above statements of colleagues
It’s very strange for a big solid company like Envato to make such strange business offer - “guys just accept this but we don’t how much we will pay you”.
Especially when we are talking about giving our tracks to AI training.
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Very unclear, unfair and unprofessional! Opted out and waiting for explanation.
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I have been an Envato music creator since 2017. After receiving the email, I am sure that Envato’s offer needs a clear explanation!
Copyright and potential issues with YouTube ContentID.
The future role of creators after AI training.
Envato’s commitment to supporting independent creators.
Until clear and fair terms are provided, I refuse to participate in this program and prohibit the use of my music for AI training. I share many views in the Ukrainian author community, of which I am a part.
We strive for detailed explanations and hope for respectful and transparent communication with Envato.
Sincerely,
domansed
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I think that this should not happen, quick money does not work, Envato’s policy decided to use this method and buried all the work of the authors, it is not respectful
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Anything with “perpetuity” in it means you should run the other way. Fast.
Other “licensing opportunities” like selling on Shutterstock would not need perpetuity.
Only selling to AI companies needs perpetuity, because they cannot undo the dataset collection.
This is of course vague on purpose, with the main goal to get you to sign away your music to AI. Sprinkle in some promise of “licensing opportunities” to induce some FOMO, and there you go.
Also, “opt out” is really sneaky. It should of course be “opt in” only.
Maybe I should just walk up to that big house I like, put a note on it somewhere they might not see it right away and say:
“If you don’t opt out within 30 days, you give me the right to buy your house for $100. This is a great opportunity for you”.
Sounds like a plan. Is it even legal to do opt out only?
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The hottest two little letters in the world right now are A, and I.
The Shutterstock share price is down 72% these last three years ($126 peak in 2021, $35 now).
Analysts think AI is a big reason.
The Envato marketplace is struggling. Probably down AT LEAST 50% overall these last few years.
Of course any sensible CEO would do anything they can to save their company, and exploiting anonymous suppliers is a lot easier than firing staff (that comes later).
This is their plan (my opinion):
• Build AI generative solution to background music and charge a subscription fee for that (of course based off of our music).
A one time low fee for AI training, and 100% of royalties after that (in perpetuity) for them.
Anyone can train an AI model based on available algorithms. You need some time, computer power, and some tweaking. It’s not magic. Computer power has just caught up and can now analyze and find similarities in enormous amounts of data.
Most importantly, of course - you need a lot of data to train on, with keywords. Without this, it’s worthless.
We have the valuable stuff, and keeping full control over our music is the most important thing.
After analyzing 5,000 corporate tracks (that are extremely formulaic) with matching keywords an AI could spit out clones (with variation) no problem.
I think the corporate, generic style is over (for humans), but if you make somewhat unique music, it’s extremely important to protect that from AI.
You are being asked to essentially give them the rights to sample your music thousands of times, without royalties (except for that $0.50 at first). AI music generation is nothing more than micro sampling.
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I guess AI-generated music will be an even cheaper alternative to the music available on AJ and Elements today. So say it costs 2 $ (probably a lot less). A third party takes half of this. The 1 $ left is split 50% to Envato and the 50 cents left is split between potentially hundreds or thousands of authors that owns the music the track is generated from? Since Envato doesn’t give us any details, couldn’t this be a probable scenario?
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Hi Envato Team,
I am a music author on Envato since 2017. Recently, Envato sent an email to all music authors, announcing the launch of a program for training generative AI and inviting authors to provide their portfolios for AI training. However, Envato has not provided any details on the compensation authors will receive, the frequency of payments, or if there will be ongoing royalties for works created by AI based on our tracks.
In essence, Envato is asking us to hand over our portfolios, created through years of hard work, with the vague promise of potential compensation. We do not know the amount or the terms, but we are expected to agree. This is reminiscent of other audio stock platforms that made similar requests, resulting in authors receiving meager sums. This diminishes the value of our work as the company may end up paying a small amount to authors, train the AI on their work, and eventually render the authors unnecessary, leading to a significant drop or complete loss of income. Why should authors contribute to their own downfall without fair compensation?
Additionally, how can an author agree or disagree with Envato’s proposal when the following points remain unclear:
- Pricing and compensation for authors, including approximate amounts
- Copyright issues
- Potential copyright problems for authors and in the YouTube ContentID system
- The future role of authors after the AI is trained, added to the website, and starts generating music
- Envato’s commitment to the authenticity and diversity of the author community, which has always been a declared core value of the company. The goal of supporting independent authors in sharing their work with the world and receiving respect and financial rewards from clients must be maintained. Where is this in your offer?
- Future plans for Envato, especially after becoming part of Shutterstock, and the implications for us as authors. It is crucial for us to receive clear communication from the company’s representatives on this matter.
Until authors are provided with a clear understanding and well-defined legal and financial conditions from Envato, I refuse to provide my music for the purposes stated in the company’s letter and prohibit its transfer to third parties for AI training without agreement. If the company provides detailed explanations of the terms for authors and future perspectives, I may reconsider my decision later.
I would also like to note that the above concerns are shared by most representatives of the Ukrainian author community, of which I am one of the administrators. Please consider this a collective inquiry from our community as well.
We hope Envato will address our questions with respect and understanding and provide comprehensive answers.
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Dear Envato Team,
I appreciate Envato informing me about including audio content as part of third-party distribution and licensing plans. However, I would appreciate it if you could provide some clarifications to make an informed decision.
Firstly, I have concerns about the use of licensed samples in my works. As @RedOctopus pointed out, many sample companies, such as Splice, Orchestral Tools, KeepForest, etc. have recently updated their TOS to prohibit AI training on their content. I used their samples in some of my works too. This restriction presents a significant legal issue for authors opting in. How will Envato address this potential legal conflict?
There is a need for transparency regarding the use of our content in AI training and generative AI services. As authors, we deserve to understand how and under what conditions our creative work will be utilized. The current proposal lacks a clear explanation of these terms, leading to uncertainty and concern.
There have been reports that AI-generated music from some AI companies may trigger YouTube Content ID and similar systems. By allowing unlimited commercial use (including releases of generated content on Spotify, Apple Music, etc.) those companies are violating the rights of authors of work they have been training their models on (in my opinion). This raises concerns about potential conflicts where our original content could be flagged as a result of an end-user claiming generated content as his own and releasing it on music platforms. Can you assure us that Envato will only make deals with companies that don’t grant ownership of generated content but allow only sync licenses to end-users, ensuring we, the authors, remain the sole rights holders and avoid issues with Content ID and similar systems?
Clear information about compensation is vital. What is the ballpark of the compensation rates from these third-party deals? Will you compensate based on the amount of items, length of the content, quality, etc? Is it one-time payment or reccuring peyment? More detailed information on the compensation structure would be greatly appreciated. Knowing the financial implications will help authors make an informed decision about opting in or out.
In summary, I urge Envato to provide detailed information on the following points:
- Legal implications of using licensed samples from companies that prohibit AI training.
- Transparent terms on the use of content in AI training and generative AI services.
- Assurance that deals will be made with companies that legally don’t allow the ownership of generated content for the end-user.
- Clear and detailed compensation structure.
I see that many of my colleges have similar concerns here and we would appreciate your clear explanations regarding these matters.
Warm regards,
Mykhailo
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You mean:
“If you don’t opt out within 30 days, you give me the right to buy your house for a price (won’t tell you how much). This is a great opportunity for you”.
That way some naive fools, or optimistic authors (whichever you want to call them), can still hope for millions.
But yeah, that is exactly the kind of ludicrous offer Envato is giving us. Which makes you wonder who in their right mind could possibly even consider such an offer.
It’s legal until someone challenges them in court and their whole concept falls apart. But they’re betting on not being challenged by those non opting out authors.
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