Gravely low sales on the AJ Popular Files list


#61

Oh, haha, this thread answers 2 questions that have been torturing me lately :slight_smile:

  • why are the “Top Authors this month” (and their sales) gone from the “Popular files” page

  • why have my sales dropped 70%

In such conditions it’s a clear goodbye AJ for me, unfortunately…


#62

Nobody can tell this until we can see a research about audiostocks’ market shares (in case I missed something and there’s any I’ll be pleased to see the link), but until now everybody can speak only about hypothesis. So to my mind that platfrom contains too much garbage, there is no clear structure and the rules are changing dramatically and chaotically very, very often. I can see other markets that to my mind could be a developing competitors to AJ.

So about Elements I don’t argue about how bad the idea is, I also think it’s not so good. But I told you about that this is unavoidable.


#63

Apparently you missed my point.

No one is arguing that ALL subscription models are bad. But the Elements model is.

No additional evidence is needed to show that “another major stock site” (if you don’t want to concede that it is AJ’s main competitor) charges a SANE amount for their subscription program, WITHOUT UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS.


#64

We need to end this is subscription models are bad or not discussion, because we are only wasting time. What we need to do is unite and demand changes to the current model, and even more importantly let Envato pay for their own advertising of Elements. It’s time to stop putting this huge advertising bill on the exclusive market authors (the Elements banner).

And don’t think that authors are powerless with these changes. We stopped broadcast licenses from happening at the current model, we also are now in the progress of making sure affiliate authors are getting paid for their work. These things happens because authors speak up together and demand respect. It’s unfortunate that this is necessary, but that’s how it is.

So the very next priority should be removal of the Elements banner IMHO. If we don’t respect ourselves nobody else will either.

Show your support of the banner removal here by writing +1, or if you already did, do another round and write +2 Call for Collis Ta’eed, Envato founder:Please Separate Elements!!


#65

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#66

You are only exploited if you allow yourself to be exploited.

We all came to AJ because we saw the earning potential of just one hit track and earning potential from an entire catalog of music. We quickly learned that many were earning $500 to $20,000 a month selling music one sync license at a time. Not a bad deal.

We now are learning that the highest amount a catalog can earn in a subscription model is probably in the $1200 to $1700 per month range.

Follow the money, do the math. There is a massive difference between $15,000 to $20,000 a month and $1500 a month. AND, this is only with a few select authors invited to the party. Imagine if ALL authors piled into that market and suddenly 100,000 tracks were inside elements.

Guess where earnings would go? Basically $0.

If this is not a slippery slope to hell then what is it?

Are you in business to make money with your intellectual property? If Yes, then you better sell that property for a price where you can actually earn a profit, long term. And Netrabeat, I think we all believe in free markets but when a market devalues assets to absurd levels of nothingness would you think that music producers would wake up and say “no thanks” to this deal.

If someone launched a site that had the terms of 25 cents for each sync license sold would you take that deal? The proof is right in front of everyone’s face that this model will not work out long term. If the top seller can not earn even $2000 a month in a subscription model when they are used to 15 to 20K a month from the one sync license at a time model… does that not speak volumes?

We are raising our voices so loud here because AJ is most likely the largest stock music licensing site in the world in terms of daily traffic. If subscription really takes hold here and becomes the norm forever, we are toast, Everyones monthly revenue will fall into the abyss.

It’s up to us, just don’t engage in the model, no one is forcing you into a terrible deal.


#67

Unfortunately the Elements advertisement is exploiting absolutely everybody who sells at the market. Especially exclusive top authors. Whether you have signed up for Elements or not.


#68

Yeah I understand all that mate and I 100% agree with your concerns. I’m just pointing out the mindset a lot will be having going into it. Maybe we need to wait it out and see when it does become unsustainable, but I don’t think it’s possible to stop it running its course while it’s still making a select few some nice profit and sucking up so many new customers.

If most artists boycotted elements, I guarantee a few would stay, then the ones that did stay would have a massive piece of the pie and be making a ton of money from it. Most other artists that are allowed in are not just going to sit on the sidelines struggling while them select few make tons of money so this isn’t going to go away.

But all your long term concerns are still 100% valid and I’m really worried about the direction we’re going too. The problem is as a market, people are irrational and greed driven, and you literally can’t stop human nature. A lot of people that join are just reacting to this fact. But to call everyone that joins irrational is a bit unfair imo. This is far more complex than that and some people are just reacting to stay competitive. Human nature, over saturation and the fact tons of customers have already joined elements + envato aggressively advertising it on our own market place makes this a real complicated mess.

The responsibility for this issue lies with human nature and greed (mostly on envatos part, but again they’re also just reacting to the market conditions to stay on top). And I don’t think we can stop it till it causes the industry to crash and reset.


#69

I tend to disagree. It stems from the greed and really, overt ignorance of music producers. If you go back and read all the threads about elements everyone who commented as to WHY they agreed to the deal basically said statements like this:

  1. I received an invite to join Elements so I did, that’s all there is too it.
  2. Elements is a for a different kind of customer so we’ll see how many new customers will subscribe.
  3. I have to show that I am willing to adapt to changes.
  4. If I can meet just one person on the platform, that may change my life, so that is why I am giving elements a shot.
  5. This may be a way to breathe new life into my tracks that are not selling that well.

All of these justifications above are not impressive at all and now that some facts are coming out about top selling authors not making as much as they can one sync at a time, is that not enough to convince all talented authors to run away from this model as fast as possible? Do people really think that customers will not perform 2 searches? Meaning…they will find a track on market, then click to elements to see if they can download it for essentially free (because they already bought the subscription).

Anyway, intelligent voices of common sense reason are still needed so we need to keep writing about this. There just is way too much basic business and economic ignorance that exists among music producers. Running on “hope” is not going to make you money. Putting a real price on your assets that can actually stick a profit in your pocket will make you money. Selling sync licenses will make you money. Having “points” assigned to your item in a weird formula initiated by envato will not make you the same kind of money you are making selling sync licenses.

Why is it that the majority still lower prices even after so many have stated that their revenue is going up with higher prices? Lower prices = less revenue for you. It’s that simple.

Let me ask all this: Do you want to see the sync license sale disappear and be replaced by subscriptions only?


#70

Oh I deffo think we should keep ringing the alarm bells about this for sure!!! and I really hope you’re right and I hope all talented authors do leave so the quality of elements becomes a true ‘fast food’ quality market place. I just don’t trust human nature when we’re talking about a large group of people. There’s always a small group that do the irrational thing that messes it up for the rest of us.

And no, even if I was invited I wouldn’t join… I’m not talking about me. I’m talking about human nature in large groups and corporate greed. I’m on your side dude, I’m just entering a rational discussion to try to educate myself more and to test your arguments. I actually want you to be right in the sense that there is a chance that all talented authors leave making elements a not so attractive option for customers.


#71

I am in complete agreement with you, and have probably committed “suicide by forum posts” by frequently offering critical anti-Elements arguments on the forums in the last few months.

Let’s take Envato’s relationship with authors/producers and set it aside. You could spend hours discussing and debating the relationship/responsibility that exists between Envato and authors who sell on the AudioJungle marketplace.

Let’s focus only on Envato’s relationship with its customers and potential new customers. It is easy to see why Envato would make it a priority to get access to music and SFX at extremely below-market rates and provide a service that gets their customers access to it for their projects.

If the supply of music & SFX is available on their established terms (low prices, favorable split of subscription revenue, little or no download documentation provided to contributors), Envato can profit from Elements, and their customers find the product offering irresistible, hassle-free and useful. It’s a win-win.

Customers get access to audio at ridiculously low prices, allowing them more flexibility and profitability on their projects. Elements provides Envato with recurring monthly revenue, and if Elements is a better offer than competitors’ subscription programs, Envato secures more market share, also.

So, from the standpoint of “the customer comes first,” they are serving their customers. They are also serving their employees and shareholders.

In order to make all of this work, they need a supply of audio from authors willing to provide their work at tremendously low rates.

And that’s where you come in, authors/producers. The responsibility for the well-being of the music and sound effects production industry starts and ends with music professionals.

If it is your intention to make a business of your music or SFX work, you can’t give it away for free or close to it.

Marketplace companies will love that you’re willing to sell your work so cheaply, and so will their clients.

But that’s not going to help pay for your family’s health insurance or rent.

In my opinion, Elements (as it is currently offered) will not benefit the community of music producers. To expand on that, if the low-priced subscription model becomes the norm and the sync license disappears, it will be very harmful to music producers.

In the not-too-distant future, marketplace companies may be sourcing their supply of cheap music and SFX for their subscription programs from music hobbyists, not music professionals.

But ultimately, it is the responsibility of music producers to educate themselves and make informed decisions about whether or not to take part in these programs.

Please value your work. It is important for the health of the music and SFX production community.

PS. This post is written by a part-time AJ author and full-time video professional who has purchased a considerable number of sync licenses from talented AudioJungle authors over the last decade, and will continue to do so as long as they’re offered here.


#72

35% from 21% referrals, which means ~7% referrals of all visitors who came from market, let’s take even 10% (1.2kk visitors). This is around 2-3% of all visitors from all markets together (One Themeforest has around 25-28kk visitors, VH around 8-9, AJ 5-6). Mb for AJ this number is higher, as AJ is smaller market regarding to visitors number. And as someone mentioned overall number of tracks raised by 25% per year. Which is around 100k tracks. It looks like number of new customers didn’t grow that much or didn’t grow at all, so sales are spread for those 100k also. That also means 25% average loss for everyone in a time range. Someone can lose 50%, someone nothing or like 5-10%.

So this “elements devastating impact” for AJ seems lil bit exaggerated according to these numbers and real problem is oversaturation or at least those 2 are equal problems


#73

Great, so it’s not a big deal for Envato if they remove Elements banners! They don’t lose a lot of traffic and authors can chill. Cool :wink:


#74

No no my dog isn’t dangerous!!!..
So why you keep the sign "Beware of the dog?


#75

xD


#76

As I said earlier… Authors, potential future authors, people from competitor markets and our customers read forums and bad news spread fast. Forums are full of negativity and frustration for months now because Elements advertising via markets. A community-oriented company like Envato (or any kind of company) would not risk their reputation and good vibe around their brand just to keep something that makes insignificant profit or something that is not important to them.


#77

You bring some interesting numbers to the table, I am in no position to argue with those numbers, but we all know that advertising works. Especially the relentless brainwashing type. The only thing we know for sure is that AJ is a small and fragile market compared to the whole Envato eco system. I think there is a reason why Audio was added last, Envato knows that music licensing is more complicated than selling let’s say stock footage. Music also have a very broad use and should not be offered in huge track counts in a service like this. Try to look for music and stock footage in Elements and see which of those is basically satisfying all your needs and which is not (for the average customer).

I really don’t think Elements is the only reason for decline in sales for new items and popular files tracks. Over saturating as you mention is one of the top problems definitely. There are many reasons which all adds up. What worries me the most is the recent months drop in sales seems to arrived very quickly at AJ, not slowly declining. Talking about popular files and fresh new items.

Anyway, I think it was you who mentioned VH had a drop of 20-30% after Elements? Or am I wrong? If not what was these numbers based on? Do you guys have a drop in popular files and new items last year? What is the percentage of your overall items added the last year? Thanks in advance for any insight :slight_smile:

Unfortunately we saw how much Envato cares about their reputation and good vibe with the removal of the credit system and forced transaction fees, which of course still is annoying customers. Still a mystery to me how this is going to play out for the market in the long run.

I was very upset how customers were treated back then, but compared to the disrespect that is happening now with exclusive market authors it seems like peanuts in comparison.

I am talking about forced advertising to a competing market which are financed by the authors themselves. Affiliate authors without a full pay check. Silence treatment and ignorance of the community’s ideas and concerns.

I don’t blame the Envato staff we are in contact with, I honestly think they are trying to help, I talked to several of them privately and have only been met with a polite attitude and respect. It is however limited what they can do in many cases and they seem to be stressed out with a lot of work. The responsibility needs to be at the top management. They make the bigger decisions and they can hire more people to get good things happening.

But yes, we don’t need any more stats or tales about insignificant numbers. For example authors have used a lot of time (literally years) working for changes in the broadcast licensing system, which of course can be argued with “insignificant numbers and percentages”. It’s totally uninteresting. All we need is proper systems that respects authors that have worked here for years and years with blood sweet and tears. I don’t think we are asking for to much at all.


#78

Envato Elements would not be so bad if the authors allowed to upload only old, irrelevant tracks with a low number of sales.
But for some reason, even some top authors decided to act “here and now”, giving their entire portfolio to Elements (including tracks - top sellers), without thinking about the consequences in the long run.


#79

What for custumers must buy 1 track for 20 if they are could buy the UNLIMITED one month subscription for 16 ??? Subscription include UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD FOR music video and other stuff… They can download out all space at computer for one day )… amazing… So thas why we are has low sales at audio jungle


#80

Fortunately Envato is not the only resource where you can earn.And if authors don’t want to pay good money sense to work on?
Unfortunately the market is not the same as it was before, it’s sad but you need to move on.