Why Visual Composer?


#1

Hey folks,

I was wondering why the influx of designs these days are dependent on the Visual Composer. I have noticed with many themes that I have bought come with amazing features, but those features are useless, thus the theme useless without the VC plugin. From my experience the VC plugin can be quiet buggy at times and the developer is very good at updating, but not all theme developers are.

So now one waits for the theme developer to update that VC plugin, or their modified version (which is always the case because the theme is dependent on it) … to be honest this to me is not fair.

I read some where that Envato does not want theme developers to offer shortcodes, but to have buyers purchase third-party shortcodes/page builders as a plugin … why is this? To me that is not right as well. When I buy a theme it should be fully function with the features it is selling and not misleading me and forcing me to use a third-party plugin.

Is there any multi-purpose themes out there that don’t require the Visual Composer or is this the new norm of tricky marketing? Just my two cents. =)

Cheers


#3

I understand what you are saying, but if the theme is well built, you don’t need to use VC or any shortcodes. Basically you will still be able to build your own content across pages and posts without any of these elements.
The “problem” is that it is harder to build special pages where you want to use columns, backgrounds with parallax effects, sliders, tabs, toggles, etc… You will have to build all of these with “your own hands”, because there are no shortcodes available.
Also, as an example, if you want to show the latest portfolio posts on your homepage, how will you do it without a shortcode or a plugin?
I think VC and other page builders are great as long as the theme works well without them too. If you decide to switch themes later, you need to be ready to make adjustments to your content, but I never saw a theme switch without going through this type of process.


#5

I still hope that one day WordPress core will include a built-in visual builder to create basic things like columns or pullqoutes at least.


#6

Thanks for the feedback guys and see your points. I for one don’t require a drag & drop theme and prefer to use shortcodes to customize my layouts etc. I remember before VC and such “Page Builders” came out shortcodes were the way to go you would find them on my premium themes. Now you don’t! You have themes that say 100+ shortcodes etc, but do you tell you that the majority of these shortcodes are dependent of the VC plugin.

The reason I bring this up is more and more often I am seeing error and conflicts with VC. Lets talk about Wordpress 4.0 and VC … well, I should be careful on the words I use. =) Lets just say it was not pretty.

Here is an option … here at Envato you can have either a Regular License of a Extended License, why not have a Developer License that has all the listed features build into the theme and not depended on a third-part plugin such as VC? This way folks who don’t need to the Drag & Drop still get the great features the theme developer has created (sort of) and those who require the simplicity get their needs met too.

If Envato and theme developers are looking to make money … well, that always comes when there is more options. A win win for all parties. =)

Cheers


#7
ThemePrince said

I still hope that one day WordPress core will include a built-in visual builder to create basic things like columns or pullqoutes at least.

Yes it will be in future, they considering using light weight page builder.

We use SiteOrign Page builder for all my themes as TGM activation.

We feel this is lightest builder out of all the page builders available right now.


#8

It’s quite simple.

There are a lot of ‘webdesigners’ who create layouts depended on some sort of uber package of plugins. The plugin can save templates which are available in the theme in the end.

I see Premiumlayers saying “they rate your theme 3 stars just because it doesn’t have a page builder plugin integrated”

I think that’s BS - A nice designed theme with some shortcodes to create columns or a very basic layout/column builder is what people i know of like the most.

Like i said in another post: so called ‘Authors’ aren’t designing anymore - they only style blank templates full of pagebuilder crap - and in the end lots of end-users don’t even know where to start anymore.

Empty shells full of ‘premium’ plugins is the main product nowadays…

Some pagebuilders are nice - but most themes rely on them way too much


#10
PremiumLayers said
ChapterThemes said

It’s quite simple.

I see Premiumlayers saying “they rate your theme 3 stars just because it doesn’t have a page builder plugin integrated”

I think that’s BS - A nice designed theme with some shortcodes to create columns or a very basic layout/column builder is what people i know of like the most.

I shared our experience which may or may not match with yours, especially considering the fact you have only 1 theme on sale and might not have come up with such situation with a buyer yet. That doesn’t give you any right to call it a BS so please make sure to be more respectful to other people next time you write something.

You misunderstood me / i wrote it wrong, sorry.

I don’t think it’s BS what you say - but it’s BS a person rates 3 star because they miss a pagebuilder.

Don’t immedialty play the ‘respect’ card - haha, it’s so lame. please check out everything i do - i always have respect for other people :slight_smile:

As for that 1 item - that’s just a side case. People can have more experience outside this marketplace you know :wink:


#11

I personally hate VC / page builders, they are so buggy (from my experience), they aren’t easily moved from install to install and just aren’t very user friendly.

I can see the benefit for people new to WP but a theme shouldn’t need to rely on a page builder to make the content look nice, it should be the same with or without the editor (using shortcodes).

I don’t even think that most buyers want or need a page builder, it’s just the current buzz word and they think they want it to seem like they are upto the latest trend.

Page builders should be used as an extension to a theme not to be the actual theme.


#12
Gareth_Gillman said

I personally hate VC / page builders, they are so buggy (from my experience), they aren’t easily moved from install to install and just aren’t very user friendly.

I can see the benefit for people new to WP but a theme shouldn’t need to rely on a page builder to make the content look nice, it should be the same with or without the editor (using shortcodes).

I don’t even think that most buyers want or need a page builder, it’s just the current buzz word and they think they want it to seem like they are upto the latest trend.

Page builders should be used as an extension to a theme not to be the actual theme.

You say so because you haven’t actually seen a real page builder. All these that are on market are just “Inner content builders”. I agree that a page builder should be used as an extension and the theme should not be dependent on it, but I also hate the shortcodes and I think it is much easier to create the content visually instead of how the WordPress way.

To the OP. There is nothing it can be done anymore. The page builders, hundreds of different so called “features”, tens of different layouts in one, is a must now in TF if you want to survive the competition, else developers may choose another platform that is not so popular. Ehh, WP is destroyed bit by bit.


#13
Smartik said

There is nothing it can be done anymore. The page builders, hundreds of different so called “features”, tens of different layouts in one, is a must now in TF if you want to survive the competition…

I totaly disagree.
It’s common to do so on TF, but that doesn’t mean it’s the only way to survive.

I’m telling you - create a killer design - something cool - give them a couple of different templates and some options, and you don’t need hundreds of features and bloated builders to have a successful item.


#14

Hi Gareth. You are somewhat right when it comes to bloated or buggy code for page builders in general.
I personally like page builders; though I’m not a big fan of VC, I like it and it’s easy to extend. I hate using shortcodes especially when it comes to columns. VC is not the only page builder out there but it’s very popular.


#15
ChapterThemes said
Smartik said

There is nothing it can be done anymore. The page builders, hundreds of different so called “features”, tens of different layouts in one, is a must now in TF if you want to survive the competition…

I totaly disagree. It's common to do so on TF, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to survive.

I’m telling you - create a killer design - something cool - give them a couple of different templates and some options, and you don’t need hundreds of features and bloated builders to have a successful item.

Don’t tell me that, I know what is good and what not. The bad part is that buyers don’t know that and they are searching for garbage, for bundles, not themes.

Create that “killer design” and show me the sales, when you’ll have it then you can disagree with my previous comment. It’s hard, mate, and you must be lucky also. The “Popular items” section speaks for itself.

I don’t like these themes that includes every plugin possible and add hundred of different options in it, but that sells. I like minimal designs with minimal resources, that loads fast on every device and use the latest technologies.


#16

Guys stop talking [language removed]. People are buying themes with Composer or other page builders because they are convenient. Yes, they can be buggy and the output code is far from being beautiful or perfect. Nobody cares. Page builders are much more convenient than messing with old-school text shortcodes.


#17

Like I always say, Avada disagrees :slight_smile: It sold 70k+ without a page builder. Here we are trying to relate page builders to sales :slight_smile:


#18
||+1127671|Dream-Theme said-|| Guys stop talking [language removed]. People are buying themes with Composer or other page builders because they are convenient. Yes, they can be buggy and the output code is far from being beautiful or perfect. Nobody cares. Page builders are much more convenient than messing with old-school text shortcodes.

I do the support for an elite author and in 200+ tickets I have sorted for them, how many people have asked why the themes don’t have pagebuilder?

1 person, that’s in nearly 10k of sales, you ask most buyers why they bought your theme, it won’t be because it’s got a page builder, it will be down to the design or features, page builder is a buzz word and most buyers won’t even know what one is let alone how to use it!

A saying I use a lot for my clients is KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid - page builders are not simple or easy to use, they are a pain in the backside for users and authors.

If a theme needs a page builder then there is something wrong with the theme, a theme shouldn’t need to use a page builder for the user to build the site how they want, it should come straight out of the box.

The author I do support for has revolution slider, has multiple layout and extra bits like columns, the theme uses an admin panel so the user can turn the item on or off, uses theme sections to build each “part”.

When I was looking at building themes for TF I was going to go down the VC route but now I won’t as there are far better ways to build content for the site.


#19
fuelthemes said

Like I always say, Avada disagrees :slight_smile: It sold 70k+ without a page builder. Here we are trying to relate page builders to sales :slight_smile:

From the screenshots it seems that it has something called Fusion Builder and they must have added it because of buyers asking. I also think that the same happened to Salient.

#20
Gareth_Gillman said

Page builders should be used as an extension to a theme not to be the actual theme.

Yes! I totally agree with this … this sums up the whole point for this thread. =)

Cheers


#21
||+1127671|Dream-Theme said-|| Guys stop talking bullshit. People are buying themes with Composer or other page builders because they are convenient. Yes, they can be buggy and the output code is far from being beautiful or perfect. Nobody cares. Page builders are much more convenient than messing with old-school text shortcodes.

First off, why is it when folks ask questions they get a pissy rude response from you? I know I have.

Second, how is it convenient when I have to go back and fix peoples sites because of buggy bloated code? In my view page builders do have their place, but they can also make you lazy.

Cheers


#22

Page builder user here, I’ll give my input:

My page builder based themes work perfectly without the builder, that is, you still have access to a full blog, regular pages, usually a portfolio post type including single posts and archives, maybe even a team post type with the same.

So if you want, most of my page builder themes can be used to make a pretty big site without ever touching the page builder.

However, for those buyers that want to put together a complex, sectioned page, a page builder is an absolute must. I mention “sectioned” because that’s the main thing I find, it’s easy to make a few columns with regular short codes, but throw in some sectioning, complex elements (sliders, carousels etc.) and suddenly you’ve got a page full of short code mess.

That’s when page builders are great.

As for Visual Composer, I’m not a fan, Aqua Page Builder has always been and will continue to be my go to solution.

I hope that helps even the slightest.


#23

Shortcodes was a bad concept from the beginning and I’m happy that it’s dying quickly now. :evil: