Audio authors: Q&A about Envato third-party distribution and licensing

[WormwoodMusic]

Yeah, that’s totally clear indeed. What’s not so much is the other way around: do we have the option to opt-in after the terms of these deals are disclosed (if they are ever being disclosed).

Anyway, I obviously opted out, and I’m sure both Ben and KingDog would do the same if they received an email from Shutterstock informing them that in two weeks their contracts would be subject to a new exciting agreement with unspecified terms and amounts, and they would need to opt out to avoid being automatically enrolled.

[CWMusic]

Everything is unclear. It’s essentially entering into a record label deal or distribution deal without any details.
I mean even when entering a CID service deal the terms are clear: company scans YouTube/ Facebook/ instagram with your soundfiles, keeps x % and pays you quarterly.
Music remains yours.

[E-soundtrax]

Hi everyone,

I’ve decided to opt out of the new agreement proposed by Envato regarding the distribution of our music to third parties and its use in training AI to create stock music. The lack of transparency about who the third parties are and how much compensation we, as authors, will receive is concerning.

Additionally, there are several potential conflicts that have not been clearly addressed, such as issues with Content ID, royalty collection, and copyright matters. These unresolved issues make it difficult for me to agree to the new terms confidently.

To opt out, I filled out the Google form provided by Envato. However, I haven’t received any confirmation after submitting the form, @KingDog could you please provide some clarification on this? Thanks.

[SteelSound]

Congratulations to all who have “Opted out”. I officially took that action yesterday and I do not allow any site I deal on to use my music in these bogus AI training deals.

Intellectual Property needs to be taken very, very seriously. Your music catalog is very expensive and valuable property that generates recurring royalties year after year for you. You want that to last forever. AI Training (Large Language Learning Models) does NOT want those royalties paid to you to last forever. They are trying like hell to take those away from you.

Allowing your property to be copied and ingested by AI companies (all of whom Envato refuses to disclose the names of) is an extremely risky move.

You really are losing total control of your music property by allowing it to be copied and studied by AI Learning models.

This “new Revenue Stream” is just so sketchy and seedy with literally no details about how anyone is going to be compensated. Nor is there any information about what potentially could be the compensation model? And most importantly, there is no offer of a RECURRING MONTHLY ROYALTY PAID as is the model right now.

I will close with this: Generative AI Music models clearly have one goal and one goal only: Eliminate the need to pay human beings royalties when their music licenses to a buyer who needs to “rent” your property for their visual media production or podcast, or radio ad…etc…

The silence about who? What? When? How? Where? Why? is just so revealing. The internal plans of all these mega cap tech companies is to just use human music producers, exploit them, and essentially gain access to their intellectual property for an extremely low price so they can “study your stuff so the AI Machine can make new stuff, with your stuff” …all while paying you NOTHING. If there was long term, sustainable pay for humans in this new deal, they’d be talking about it.

Silence means there is no good news for music producers. Silence means only suckers will opt in and “hope for the best”…but nothing good will come of it…ever.

Lastly, I really do believe that any company, big brand, or major TV network with any kind of integrity and concern for human creativity and ingenuity will not touch AI music to underscore their visual media.

Will we lose business to the small time youtube creators who may migrate to cheap AI music? Well that remains to be seen. Those copyright strikes from AI Generated music may eventually drive them crazy and they may one day wake up and realize 'You get what you pay for" and resume using human made tracks.

Hopefully the courts will do as we all hope: Rule for Plaintiff and order the shut down of Suno and Udio to bankrupt them and their investors who invested $125,000,000 and counting. Remember NAPSTER lost, they were shut down and that bankrupted them. Apple I tunes was born and that did get people buying music again. Now most people buy music again every month. Everyone pays Spotify or Apple to get ad free music. That actually was a good thing.

I have always wondered why there is a relentless, brutal attack on musicians to get their product for free and get them to work for free? Why? It never ends!

[KingDog]

Thank for letting me know. Pretty sure you’re good once you submit the form.

[STEREUM]

[BenLeong]

Hi all. It’s getting harder to spot the actual questions among some of the longer commentaries in this thread, so I’d like to ask again that people please keep this thread for Q&A specific to Envato’s 3rd-party distribution and licensing. If you’re posting about AI technology in general, use the Music and AI tools discussion thread for that.

@WormwoodMusic for your two questions:

1. There won’t immediately be any deals to announce after Aug 2, as that’s just the point at which we can start having those discussions with potential partners. We’ll share information where we can, but it is worth noting that commercial deals frequently involve non-disclosure agreements that can limit the details that can be shared. When any 3rd-party licensing generates revenue, that will be included as a new line item in your monthly earnings statements.

2. We aren’t planning to revisit this in future: we’ll continue to honour any opt-outs received this month, but we don’t intend to change the status of individual authors or items after that point.

We’ll have a reminder email about the opt-out process going out later this week, to anyone who has not already completed the opt-out form.

Once you complete the form you’ll receive a copy of your response (via email) from Google Forms. That confirms that we have received your response, and that we won’t include your content in any 3rd-party licensing.

[MojoSoundtrack]

@BenLeong Since unfortunately no real answers are given (or possible to give) from Envato on the issues of sample libraries restrictions for AI training, potential PRO and Content ID issues you are handing all these responsibilities and uncertainties over to the authors.

The very least Envato can do is to clearly inform in the next email (and dashboard) that this is now every authors own responsibility. To simply check if they are even allowed to participate in this.

The deadline should also be extended so people have both time to actually read the email and wait for any answers from their PRO’s etc, or just finish their vacation…

[gballx]

I would imagine that there will be a large amount of authors who will ignore the foums postings concerning this or will not be aware of how this will affect them.

[MojoSoundtrack]

@E-soundtrax

To opt out, I filled out the Google form provided by Envato. However, I haven’t received any confirmation after submitting the form

I realised I had no confirmation mail either, but I tried opting out from the second email I have attached to AudioJungle and then I got a confirmation email to that account.

[E-soundtrax]

@BenLeong

Once you complete the form you’ll receive a copy of your response (via email) from Google Forms. That confirms that we have received your response, and that we won’t include your content in any 3rd-party licensing.

@BenLeong Why am I not receiving a confirmation email after filling out the Google form? I am entering the correct information from my AudioJungle author account.

[SteelSound]

Envato Audio Opt-out

Thank you for completing the Audio Opt-out form. Your response has been noted, and you will receive a copy of your form response via email.

I opted out a second time on my dashboard. Seeing that these deals are hidden behind walls of secrecy and Non Discolsure, all authors have to realize how dangerous this deal is. You really are losing control over your intellectual property by allowing third party AI companies to copy and study and produce derivative outputs from your human made music. This is an extremely important issue that Envato does not want to properly warn about. Additionally, They have never stated that there is a possibility for a recurring monthly royalty for willing participants. This is a major red flag. Basically, all questions have been avoided.

But Let me summarize the facts of this deal:

1. Envato can not nor will not ever tell music authors which companies are copying and “AI TRAINING/ learning” from your music, to make new music
2. All AI companies, notably Open AI, SUNO, UDIO have not and will not reveal where they are getting their data from to train AI. This clearly means that they (AI Scrapers and Ingestors) are up to sneaky, borderline immoral, illegal usages of human made copyrights.
3. There has been no AI regulation around the globe as of July 22, 2024. But soon the case of Major Record Labels V Suno and Udio will set a precedent.
4. Envato can not offer even a clue as to what the compensation for an author might be, so please know (as an opt in participant) the compensation can literally be $0 or even just $0.01 cent if they so chose.
5. This is the most important one - IN PERPETUITY - If you do not opt out, your music is fair game to be copied infinite amount of times, forever, to train generative AI Music models forever to make derivative outputs of your works. You can never change your mind and “take back” your property. Since the beginning of digital music publishing/ music licensing began, all authors (Intellectual property owners) have always been given the opportunity to fully control their music assets on sites like Enavto. We always have the right to delete our property if we so chose. You will never have this chance to fully control your music by allowing AI companies to legally copy, ingest, and Teach AI how to make new stuff with your stuff. AI companies will obtain perpetual (Forever) rights to your music property!

I know I sound like a broken record, but I really do worry about the authors aged 20 to 40 who may not truly understand the risks in this deal. There really is no offer at this point. Also keep in mind that I personally have had support reps from music licensing companies write back to me stating “I can totally understand why you’d want to opt out of AI Training”…If this is not a revelation, then what is it? If support reps from music licensing companies REALLY felt as though this is a meaningful opportunity to earn more revenue, well…they’d be responding differently.

[OlexandrIgnatov]

So, unfortunately, no real answers were provided by Envato. I opted out.

[Rickyloca]

@BenLeong

When any 3rd-party licensing generates revenue, that will be included as a new line item in your monthly earnings statements.

Unless BRIA AI hasn’t generated any revenue since 30 June 2023, no one here has seen a new line item in the earnings statement.

Why it should be different for music authors and future 3rd party agreements?

[LuckyBlackCat]

I didn’t get any constructive information about deal, so I press opted out.

[pinkzebra]

I would really like a more official confirmation, or indication in my dashboard that I have opted out. I did receive the confirmation of the Google Form I submitted, but it simply mirrors the information I provided.

What if someone made a typo entering their username? What if they used a different email than their account email? Would they receive that same confirmation email even if a username didn’t match an account?

I have double-checked the info I submitted many times out of concern that something might go wrong and I see concerns from other authors about the Google Form process. There is so much at stake here that authors need a more substantial recognition and confirmation of their opt-out status.

[LuckyBlackCat]

@pinkzebra

I would really like a more official confirmation, or indication in my dashboard that I have opted out. I did receive the confirmation of the Google Form I submitted, but it simply mirrors the information I provided.

What if someone made a typo entering their username? What if they used a different email than their account email? Would they receive that same confirmation email even if a username didn’t match an account?

I have double-checked the info I submitted many times out of concern that something might go wrong and I see concerns from other authors about the Google Form process. There is so much at stake here that authors need a more substantial recognition and confirmation of their opt-out status.

Same thoughts! I also want to get confirmation that my music will not be used for AI training and that my opt out really was done!

[Nuclearmetal]

As I expected, there is no answer from Envato. Nothing. Well, I opted out from this mess

[OlexandrIgnatov]

To add to that, do you realize that ANYONE can opt you in or out if they just know your email address and username? This has been tested and works exactly as if you did it yourself. You receive the same email confirmation. What a major oversight for such a big company. What do you have to say about that, @BenLeong? This is unacceptable. Please implement a system that ensures the status of the opt-out, as @pinkzebra suggested.

This is such a significant oversight by such a large company, making me feel that even less care was put into the entire deal. It’s really unsettling.

[WormwoodMusic]

@OlexandrIgnatov raises a very valid point here.

Personally, I’m not completely opposed to analyzing and eventually participating in new plans, but we are dealing with a complete lack of information here. 0. Nothing.

Also, the message about not planning to revisit this in the future sounds, IMO, quite rude and unfriendly. Like we’re being told, “Either you sign this blank check now, or you risk losing a one-time opportunity forever.”

This mini thread about how it turned out for graphics is worth the check.