How Many fps?


#1

Im making an AE template for vh.

Im work in 25 fps. but I looking works on vh, they are 29,97 or 30 fps.

Am i false? is it make difference? is is a quality porblem?

please help me my project did not finished yet.


#2

It’s only an issue if it’s for TV. Otherwise, it’s not a problem. And frankly, unless you’re using pre-renders, you can render an Ae project out at any frame rate you like. (Even with prerenders, you can work it so that you can render at any frame rate, by pre-rendering files at 150fps - technically you’d need 600fps, but 150 does the job)

My technique is as follows… I set my projects up at 24fps. This is the frame rate of film and everyone knows it and most people like it. It’s also the lowest commonly used frame rate, so previews render faster.

Now when it comes to rendering, you have a LOT of choices. Because 24fps is a standard film frame rate and films are shown on both PAL and NTSC TV, there’s a standard way to convert. PAL speeds up by 4%. NTSC interprets the 24fps footage as 23.976, then applies a 3:2 pull down, spreading the frames across the 59.94 NTSC fields.

Or if you don’t want to go through all that rigamarole, you just set the frame rate in the render output to whatever you like. That’s the easier method.

Remember, on the internet, you can pretty much have things at whatever frame rate you please.


#3

starting with my last project I’m using 24 fps only.


#4
doru said

starting with my last project I’m using 24 fps only.

Thus ending the PAL / NTSC debate. By the way, PAL was always better :smiley:

At least the pixel size and pixel aspect ratio are sensible these days… i.e. 1920x1080 and square. Hopefully they’ll do away with interlacing next and go with a double frame rate progressive. These legacy things were clever workarounds at the time, but these days in a digital world they’re just boring. While I’m at it, how about reducing overscan to 2%. We don’t watch TV on fish bowls anymore. :slight_smile:


#5

felt_tips thank you for this explanatory answer.

Are you saying me this?

  • if I make 25 fps project it doesn’t mean few sells. It makes no difference for sells

#6
abdulhadikorcan said

felt_tips thank you for this explanatory answer.

Are you saying me this?

  • if I make 25 fps project it doesn’t mean few sells. It makes no difference for sells

I don’t think it makes all that big a difference. Just explain to purchasers in your user guide how to change the render frame rate.


#7
felt_tips said

And frankly, unless you’re using pre-renders, you can render an Ae project out at any frame rate you like.

I did this few times and it’s true. But one question came up to my mind. What about keyframes, when project is based on audio and there are some critical moments controlled by keyframes. For example two elements are going to cross each other and at the moment when they touch, another element shows up just for one keyframe and this all is also connected to some relative point in music. And let’s say, when project is done in 25fps, one second has 25 keyframes. But someone wants to render it out in 29.97 fps, so you have to change project’s fps settings. How does AE deal with that? Does it slightly move the keyframes? I believe there may be some very small changes in the result. I have to try this in AE. :slight_smile:

Back to topic - Almost all my animations were made in 29.97fps. When I use footage recorded with my camcorder (like last eye template) I shoot in 50fps progressive, also import this footage to after effects but the result is 25fps. But I have decided to continue with 25fps only.


#8

thank you felt_tips
thank you DoubleX

it was so helpfull answer.

like in every time ‘‘sorry for my bad english’’ : )


#9

25 fps for me. I think it’s the most popular choice here on VH.


#10
DoubleX said
felt_tips said

And frankly, unless you’re using pre-renders, you can render an Ae project out at any frame rate you like.

I did this few times and it’s true. But one question came up to my mind. What about keyframes, when project is based on audio and there are some critical moments controlled by keyframes. For example two elements are going to cross each other and at the moment when they touch, another element shows up just for one keyframe and this all is also connected to some relative point in music. And let’s say, when project is done in 25fps, one second has 25 keyframes. But someone wants to render it out in 29.97 fps, so you have to change project’s fps settings. How does AE deal with that? Does it slightly move the keyframes? I believe there may be some very small changes in the result. I have to try this in AE. :slight_smile:

Back to topic - Almost all my animations were made in 29.97fps. When I use footage recorded with my camcorder (like last eye template) I shoot in 50fps progressive, also import this footage to after effects but the result is 25fps. But I have decided to continue with 25fps only.

The keyframes stay at exactly the same times… but now they land between the frames… no problem.

In fact, if the difference is perceptible at all, then it will make things feel a little more naturalistic… what kind of live action would you shoot where all movements begin and end exactly at the beginning of a frame? Ae deals with it fine. :slight_smile:


#11
DoubleX said

When I use footage recorded with my camcorder (like last eye template) I shoot in 50fps progressive, also import this footage to after effects but the result is 25fps. But I have decided to continue with 25fps only.

50fps progressive = 25fps 2xslo-mo.

I guess Ae brings it in as 25fps footage, but it’s slow-motion, right? Exactly the same as overcranking a film movie camera.


#12
felt_tips said

50fps progressive = 25fps 2xslo-mo.

I guess Ae brings it in as 25fps footage, but it’s slow-motion, right? Exactly the same as overcranking a film movie camera.

Nope, when importing 50fps footage to 25fps comp, I remember that the speed is the same, AE just skips every second frame. If you want to make it slow motion use time stretch set to 200%.

In my last project (which was 25fps), I used time remapping and 50fps footage was the source, result was far better than when the source was 25fps :slight_smile:


#13
DoubleX said
felt_tips said

50fps progressive = 25fps 2xslo-mo.

I guess Ae brings it in as 25fps footage, but it’s slow-motion, right? Exactly the same as overcranking a film movie camera.

Nope, when importing 50fps footage to 25fps comp, I remember that the speed is the same, AE just skips every second frame. If you want to make it slow motion use time stretch set to 200%.

In my last project (which was 25fps), I used time remapping and 50fps footage was the source, result was far better than when the source was 25fps :slight_smile:

Then all 50 fps are there. Are you sure it’s not 50i… i.e. 50 interlaced frames? Check if your project is interpreting the footage as interlaced. That way you get 50 half height frames per second, if you time stretch it to 200%, you’ll get perfect temporal slow-mo with a slight spatial quality loss. This file will show up in QT as 25 fps (interpreted as interlaced). When stretching 25fps interlaced footage, After Effects takes each of the 50 fields and deinterlaces it to be make a whole progressive frame. Obviously to do so, it needs to interpolate every other line of picture, hence the spatial quality drop.

But I’m not sure that QT is even able to show a 25fps frame rate on a full 50p (progressive) file. Haven’t seen that in nearly 20 years of using it. If it’s possible, I’d like to know how. That could be useful occasionally.


#14
felt_tips said

Are you sure it’s not 50i… i.e. 50 interlaced frames?

Yes I’m sure, my camcorder records in 25fps interlaced mode with different quality settings or in 50fps progressive which is the reason I have chosen this camcorder. It can also record 3D in 50i, but I don’t have the lens. AE recognizes both 25i and 50p correctly. :slight_smile: I don’t know right now what do you mean by QT, but if quick time, I don’t work with it.


#15
DoubleX said
felt_tips said

Are you sure it’s not 50i… i.e. 50 interlaced frames?

Yes I’m sure, my camcorder records in 25fps interlaced mode with different quality settings or in 50fps progressive which is the reason I have chosen this camcorder. It can also record 3D in 50i, but I don’t have the lens. AE recognizes both 25i and 50p correctly. :slight_smile: I don’t know right now what do you mean by QT, but if quick time, I don’t work with it.

Ah…okay. Interesting. Yes - I meant Quicktime. What are you using? AVI?

The reason I ask is that if you could force that on to a piece of footage you output from After Effects, you could achieve the magic 150fps file that reads into Ae as a standard 25fps. Little does the user know that between every frame displayed, there are another 5 unused ones.

With this frame rate, you can set to pretty much any output frame rate you like and the maximum frame cadence problem is going to be 0.003 seconds. (in other words, completely imperceptible to the human eye). The maximum image cadence problem with a 3:2 pulldown, for comparison is 0.017seconds (I think).


#16

Camcorder records in AVCHD and that’s the raw footage I’m working with, directly in AE. After footage corrections I render the footage (as we call it here “prerender”). For prerenders I use image sequences now (PNG/JPG, depends on the length), when I came to VH I used QT.


But speaking about fps and slow-motion, twixtor is my choice, I used it once and it can do brilliant things even with 50fps.

I don’t know right now how can you make a 150fps file from this, maybe my english is not so good to understand (yet :D) but if you feel for experimentation I can drop here some raw footage and you can check in AE how it works.


#17
DoubleX said

Camcorder records in AVCHD and that’s the raw footage I’m working with, directly in AE. After footage corrections I render the footage (as we call it here “prerender”). For prerenders I use image sequences now (PNG/JPG, depends on the length), when I came to VH I used QT.


But speaking about fps and slow-motion, twixtor is my choice, I used it once and it can do brilliant things even with 50fps.

I don’t know right now how can you make a 150fps file from this, maybe my english is not so good to understand (yet :D) but if you feel for experimentation I can drop here some raw footage and you can check in AE how it works.

Yeah… I’d love to try it out. And yes. Twixtor’s ace, like pretty much all the plug-ins from Re:Vision.