Category Page Update

anchor_point_heshan · May 23, 2019, 9:56am

This is what they need I feel Envato tries to close this market place and improve elements

anchor_point_heshan · May 23, 2019, 10:03am

Thats what they need as I feel

LuckyBlackCat · May 23, 2019, 10:05am

It’s the worst solution from Envato Team for all time(

Creattive · May 23, 2019, 10:11am

if I change the sorting, every search made afterwards is done in that sorting. I think this is not an intended behaviour, but only you at envato can know this, maybe this is preferred.

I think it is better to just lock the sorting for search when I have changed the sorting for a search result page before. Not if I have changed the sorting for a category page.

You can try it out: Go to any category page, change to newest items or anything else, you can also change it back to best sellers after that, and then make a search. Best match is not chosen then.

Themetorium · May 23, 2019, 10:11am

Thank you for your reply. The main reason why we (the authors) joined Envato was good sales. Many of us earned a living here. Now, everyone sees that there is almost no traffic/sales anymore. If you take sales from authors, then it does not matter what else you’re offering, no one wants to work with you anymore.

In short, if we no longer earn here, why should we stay here?

MojoSoundtrack · May 23, 2019, 10:14am

I see a lot of uncomfortable questions left unanswered, that’s what I see. Month after month. Sometimes silence says the most. Closing down affiliate threads claiming a solution has been found says even more.

Otherwise you have good points, there are several severe problems going on that effect sales more or as much as Elements, but one problem does not out rule the other. And just because you are doing well in Elements, does not mean that you should not do even better or have more respect as an author.

I try to stay somewhat on topic here, but Envato is serving the highly unethical marketing approach up for discussion again. If Envato did sell Viagra pills this aggressive marketing strategy might fit very well, but last time I checked, they don’t.

anchor_point_heshan · May 23, 2019, 10:44am

I totally agree with you. What I strongly feel is the new authors and new items has become a burden to Envato, they have even removed their slogan that they used to attract authors. They dont need any authors any more. They have a plenty of fast selling items with them with their rights to sell and they have other products like elements and placeit to maintain. They don’t care the life we put into bringing up this market place to this level. They kick us off doing a sin, resulting unemployment and a hell of problems in the head of the authors who did a great work for Envato. I can’t even sleep well because of this problem, can;t find a job even totally helpless. They have totally forgotten that they can take that salary they take today because of the efforts and time we put as authors. The end is very soon

OlexandrIgnatov · May 23, 2019, 10:58am

Most authors don’t have a clue how to run serious marketing efforts around their items. Is it bad they don’t know how to do it in 2019? Yes, probably. But it’s still a fact. The ‘core’ base of authors when joined years ago weren’t required to do much of external marketing efforts to have a good sales. Especially when they share 50% (at first) with the platform they sell on. And let’s not forget that for new accounts it’s almost impossible to reach top levels without some kind of cheating/self buying or your own serious marketing efforts. Typically, if the platform requires authors to do their own marketing efforts to have at least some kind of reasonable sales, they allow an author to have more % share, which is still not the case with Envato.

And adding to that - Envato doesn’t provide that much technology to the authors that ‘can’ run their own marketing campaigns. Like working with customers directly, seeing their ‘customer path’, knowing where they left off and didn’t buy, sending them ‘abandoned cart’ messages, doing proper retargeting, having an e-mail marketing lists and so on. Having an html SEO friendly description and a pretty cover picture is just not enough for a reliable Google search results, running ads externally on Google is not profitable without solid connection to the Envato account itself (like Facebook ads connects to your cabinet so you can see everything, set pixels, audiences, retarget and so on).

So it kinda looks like - ‘don’t rely on us to drive traffic to your items anymore because we’re so big a company, go do it yourself’, but without giving a proper tools for doing it yourself without losing more money that you can generate from it.

Maybe many of authors are not familiar with the ads and marketing side of things, but I’m very much involved in this and I just see how it’s not profitable to do it by yourself without losing money, until Envato adds a true ‘cabinet’ where you can track, manage and reinforce your marketing results. And not, Google Analytics access doesn’t do that.

I think Envato is going through a massive ‘shift’ from being a cool and a cozy company that really was about authors and community to a big corporation. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, if a proper steps are taken to maintain a high level of authorship here, item quality and forcing additional ‘checks’ when allowing new people with stolen music and self-buying to join the platform and overcrowd the search engine. It’s just becoming too hard for people with good quality music to compete with the consequences and see reason in staying here if nothing changes for the better for them.

My 2cents.
Olexandr

DREAMYARD_Visuals · May 23, 2019, 11:35am

I’m not talking about how I’m doing in Elements. I’m talking about VH only and markets strategies not related to Elements.

If market earnings will fall down, it’s natural that I will try to find different additional incomes

Toyda · May 23, 2019, 7:43pm

Hey @jamesgiroux , thanks for the update information.

Tell me, does the Enwato team have the feeling that this experiment will not bring the expected results? The fact that this experiment is fundamentally wrong, destructive and possibly even dangerous for the entire market?

What are the odds that you are wrong and that as a result of the experiment you will have to turn back and take a different path?

What’s more surprising is that there are many talented, good authors with original ideas on the market, and you don’t even try to use this amazing resource. I’m sure you could have found a better solution together with the community.
A solution that works (as opposed to yours) and suits everyone.

Thank you.

charlie4282 · May 23, 2019, 7:53pm

Out of interest are we missing something -

we searched for items on CC
we selected a category
we chose ‘newest’

Check the item dates on the image below (may need to zoom in) - the items appear not to be in chronological order.

Did we miss a step? (FYI removing the category and just using ‘newest’ doesn’t help)

Thanks all.

kotofey · May 23, 2019, 8:15pm

There is a bug with search. Please check ticket 1518838 ASAP.

meks · May 24, 2019, 1:48pm

@jamesgiroux Thanks for the update James!

One question, do you have any near-future plans to A/B test different search algorithms on the search results page? Btw, what is the current criteria for “best match” when buyers use the search form? What I would really like to see is something similar that is already done for a long time on wp org. For example, my personal opinion is that items with good rating, recent update cycle and a decent number of sales should have been pushed higher in the results page instead of items that are only doing keyword stuffing. I’m almost sure that this will benefit everyone, all the way from buyers, to Envato and its authors.

Additionally, if this approach brings results, it will be natural to implement the “best match” on category pages too, as the new “default”.

What do you think?

ThemeREX · May 24, 2019, 3:45pm

Hi James,

I thought, others might be interested in our ideas as well.

The new sorting pillars look pretty good, but it is not solving the problem. Not at all. It is not even nearly the same from what it was before. Only ctrl + Z will do the trick. The changes did not work well, and you cannot just cover it with seasonal sales gap.

Seasonal sales gap affects the old themes, not the new ones. And we are comparing the traffic and sales of the new themes with the traffic and sales of the new themes a year ago. And the numbers are drastically different.

I think your marketing team should admit that now and stop bending the narrative here. It’s ok to be wrong, it’s not ok to turn the blind eye and pretending it’s everything else but their mistake.

Or this is not bad enough for you and you are waiting for authors to start leaving Envato? Well, the only reason they are not doing that, is only because there is nowhere to go. But in the times like this openings show up.

Now, let me be more constructive here:

1). We’ve given the new sorting method a few days (it happen to coincide with the release of few of our NEW themes - https://themeforest.net/user/ancorathemes/portfolio) and the sorting pillars did not do the trick for them at all. Zero sales for a few days - https://prnt.sc/nstnbu - and these are good themes. Really good micro-niche themes with lots of skins and homepages. They did not even get the trending badges, because they are not seen by potential customers at all.

2). So pillars are not the solution. It is a step forward, we admit, but a very small one if some at all. Just think of all the things the client has to do get to these new themes:

a). Type something in search or go to the category
b). Click on “newest” INSTEAD of “best match” and “best sellers” - really? I mean, two best marketing options ever and you click on questionable THIRD choice? I don’t think so.
c). Let’s assume that all of the above happened and those rare clients see your new theme among dozens of the other new themes now. One customer in a hundred only. The odds are pretty small.

Isn’t that way too long? Most customers will just go to best sellers and that’s it.

3). We understand where it is coming from. From the other Envato marketplaces. You’ve tested these ideas on other marketplaces and decided to use the same methods. And these methods do not work on Themeforest, you can just extrapolate them and except the same results. Envato does not have to have same algorithms for all marketplaces. Flexibility is one of the most important qualities of the marketplace.

As are the clear rules and sharing information. Like real information, not just saying - it’s ok, don’t worry, it was Easter that interfered.

4). There was a balance in the previous way the sorting worked. New themes were priority and it was right, because it kept everyone motivated. Right now, the balance is totally broken. The big themes (best sellers) will remain big themes no matter what. They were selling well before and there is not reason to raise their sales at the expense of everyone else.

Such trend will slow down the market significantly and the technological leadership Envato has right now is put under the risk. We follow the market very closely, every best seller we’ve analysed under the microscope and 99% of them (even Avada) are themes made 5-6 years ago, no matter what the updates say. Their current conditions are pretty good if you consider the years of competition against fresh themes. But they are king right now and will devour all of us with time, if the situation will not change. It will only lead to the fact that authors will send their themes elsewhere and Envato’s 6-year old bestsellers will be competing with these new themes from other markets. Does not sound very much like optimization, does it?

Now, we realize that it is easy just to criticize without giving an alternative. And we had this issue before and our experience (of hundreds sales lost) tells us one thing - the best sorting method is hybrid of both:

Showing mainly newest themes, but some certain positions (for instance 3,5,7 - out of 30) will ALWAYS be taken by relevant bestsellers that are going to be in rotation. This way customers will not get tired of the same bestsellers and new themes will have a chance to have a good start and potentially become bestsellers one day.

As simple as it is, this formula gives the balance and works fine, just give it a try.

rdstudio2018 · May 24, 2019, 4:31pm

I have checked the “Top New Author” section for Graphicriver and amazed to see that selling No 01 position owner has managed to get 15 sales only ( It’s too little for a top seller). Surprisingly 2nd position holder got only 4 sales and rest of other’s situations are really wretched, toughly 1and 2 items. So this is the whole picture after starting this experiment result still has been unchanged.

One more thing I am a designer, not an SEO expert and I don’t even know how to do it. I can only create creative new and new items but you are forcing me to be an Off-tracked Businessman. This is really ominous for me. I don’t think as a new author I should go for a partnership with an SEO expert who will bring more traffic to my pages because simply I can’t afford.

I am not sure what Envato is thinking and what is their mission and vision but it is clear that they are thinking the least for the authors especially the new authors.

It would not be wise to assume that Elit Authors alone can run this market. So it’s time for Envato Authority to make your decision wisely.

Thank you.

NED_WP · May 24, 2019, 6:49pm

I totally agree with all authors here!

Odin_Design · May 24, 2019, 10:17pm

James, you (Envato) are disrespecting all authors here…besides the huge chunk that Envato gets from each sale, and after paying US taxes, you are saying that to make it work we should pay for more exposure? AND also we will be paying to continue to fill Envato’s Element’s already bloated pockets because you keep advertising Elements, EVERYWHERE, from item pages, to authors profile pages (do you think that’s fair?)…truly a slap in the face of authors that work so hard just to stay afloat.

THIS! As we pointed out in many other topic about this issue, besides customers seeing always the same items, they are also seeing ancient items! Right now, you have in some categories, items from 7-8 years ago in the first page!! Just take a look to the first page of the HTML templates or the PSD templates categories…

If you (Envato) took a second to put yourselves in the place of authors, you’ll see how badly we’ve been treated with the decisions that Envato made in the last few years and how infuriating and sad is to hear you say “we won’t change, so if you wanna stay afloat, just keep spending money!”.

We just released a new item and the amount of views in the first days was 70% LESS than what previous releases got, so how about that? What do we say to our team that depends on this to support themselves and in some cases, their families? Such instability is truly frightening

Seems that we’re not the only ones that think that… As we mentioned before, sadly this type of moves are only possible because at this time Envato is kind of a monopoly in certain aspects. The absence of a strong competitor allows them to make changes like the ones that have been making in the last years without having to worry. But it’s a really delicate line, because they have to be constantly hoping that a young and competent competitor doesn’t appear to take all the disgruntled authors. Having authors being here just “because there’s nothing else” is a really dangerous game…the moment that a rival appears, we’ll witness a massive departure.

Going back to the Elements banners stealing our customers, another issue is that this aggressive advertisement of a model that’s different from the market on the marketplaces also leads to frustrated and confused buyers, which we all know that leads to less sales… take a look at all this topics created about confused customers…

At the beginning of Elements, we asked if Elements was going to have a similar banner promoting the markets and they told us that they didn’t wanted to confuse buyers that could mix elements model with the market one…but seems that they have no problem with doing it the other way around…

This not only damaging small authors, but all who want to release new items…even Power Elite authors, like @ThemeREX kindly explained! Other PowE Authors, did you also felt a decrease in views/conversions like has? Sorry for the intrusion, but we’re tagging a couple of you that released new items to hear you opinions if you are up to
@ThemeMove @purethemes @fuelthemes @Select-Themes @Wolf-Themes

vinovathemes · May 25, 2019, 3:17am

Oops ! Good job envato

themethreads · May 25, 2019, 9:54am

Are you seriously going to sit there and list off reasons like Easter and item names for authors sales plummeting into abyss? Don’t be so god damn insulting!

Businesses and individuals’ finances have crashed and burned, not because of the time of year, but because you have completely killed off any new items having ANY chance of being seen by buyers!

Sales haven’t just slown down because it’s easter. They haven’t just dipped a little bit because the season we’re in. They have COMPLETELY crashed and burned. Zero. Nothing. Penniless. BECAUSE YOU HAVE BURIED NEW ITEMS.

You have turned ThemeForest into a shop window for the 10 best selling themes. PERIOD.

THAT is the only reason for any of this!

Don’t be so hideously insulting to suggest otherwise!!

MVPThemes · May 25, 2019, 11:35am

As a power elite author, I am no longer in a position to just “threaten” to leave the marketplace…I am literally being forced to leave the marketplace to find another way to earn because of the steep drop in sales over the past few months that is directly related to the change in the way items are displayed by default on category pages.

This move essentially says “we now have enough items we’re happy with and no longer care about new items”. I’m not sure how anyone at Envato doesn’t see how horrible of a long-term solution this is, regardless of how well it is currently doing for the overall marketplace…for now. It’s a “rich get richer while everyone else suffers” strategy and is peak short-sighted capitalism, and will undoubtedly destroy this place very soon.

I’ve been here for 7 years now and I can’t remember any innovations that actually helped authors beyond the initial great service that Envato once was. I have never been here and noticed that my sales have increased out of nowhere and wondered what innovation Envato came up with that led to it. Instead, on at least 3 occasions over the past 7 years, I have been forced to find out what new change Envato implemented that can account for my sudden drop in sales. First, it was the “author fee” which completely changed the earning structure, then the author driven pricing (which is at least understandable), and now this category change.

This month will be my lowest sales month since I started on this platform 7 years ago, and yes, it is directly related to the category page changes. And I even have an item in the first page of the category I sell under, so I can’t imagine how others who don’t have top-selling items are being affected by this change.

I’m beyond frustrated that I continuously have to think about leaving here every other year. Envato shouldn’t be pushing authors away like this. We’ve gone from a situation where it’s tough to compete with the bigger items on the site, but there’s still enough to go around, to now not having anything else to go around because the top items are the only ones making any money. So the marketplace isn’t a marketplace anymore. It’s a small shop of a handful of authors eating all the profits. It’s capitalism at it’s finest. The wealth is being concentrated more and more at the top, and it’s simply not sustainable anymore. Your “middle class” is non-existent in this marketplace, and we’re forced to go elsewhere.

There are any number of changes I would ask you to make right now, but the first would have to be changing the category default back to newest while a close second would be to take down the Elements banners since others have already pointed out how unfair (not to mention, confusing to customers) it is. Please listen to your authors and customers. Please. If not, you won’t have any more of either after too long.