Exactly it’s completely unclear and that’s not fair.
I’ve already deleted tracks and will most likely delete them all.
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Well, this one is a pretty big thing.
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Like Adrian says…Ai is coming! Its up to you! You can make history or do your best to protect your intellectual property? ( i said the last bit) but they’ll be coming here first and when they’ve had enough of AJ and Ai gets more advanced they’ll be coming for everything else.
The most important things are;
- These terms are all a bit cloak and dagger! Here.
- This could be a copyright mess for all!
Blimey!!! Hope it works out for you Steve…Mr Rev!
Be positive. There are many alternatives.
Pm me if you like, hope i can help 
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Ben, I wonder if you blushed when you wrote your answers? a simple example of your manipulating answers that don’t really provide answers, but generate even more questions:
But the old arrangements with third parties will still be there, right? Indefinitely. And also on the rest of your terrible answers, even more questions have appeared. Ben, if the Envato are holding you hostage and forcing you to write it this way, wink, we’ll call the police.
If it seems to you that I allow myself to write to you too familiarly, then it is your fault, because you allow yourself to take us for fools first by making us wait and then providing such answers.
THE MAIN THING: The Agreement between the Authors and Envato is a legal document. Now Envato has drafted the updates it in such a way that Envato gets an almost unlimited right to use our property. All your answers (especially answers like yours) are not worth a cent here until they actually answer the problems of the other side without any manipulation and withholding and until it is added to the agreement or a separate annex to the agreement/contract.
Also, I have already received legal advice on the fact that you cannot appropriate such essentially unlimited rights to use someone else’s copyright property simply by notifying the owners by email, which they might not see (yes, this does not concern us, who have already read your email notification and has the ability to delete all work). Thus I will be happy to help all those authors who decide to sue you. Because Envato with the @collis team and Envato with the @hichameassi team is like a team of God and team of Devil. Now only one name remains - Envato.
And yes, I’m not interested in your or @hichameassi future answers about the agreement. I have already made the decision to remove all my works. But I’m interested in other questions, personally to you Ben. I don’t hope to hear the truth, or somehow influence Envato’s future decisions, especially since I haven’t uploaded my work here for over 4 years. But looking at all this, I can’t help but ask these questions to you - do you really not understand how you and Envato are trying to deceive the authors with these updates? Do you really not understand how you can influence their fate? If you understand this, do you have at least a drop of shame inside you for what you are doing? If this drop of shame is really exista inside you, then, without any sarcasm, I will be really very happy. I don’t expect your answers. It is not necessary.
Well, that’s all.
I wish all authors inspiration and success!
Wayman
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Thanks I appreciate it.
I haven’t been active on here since Elements came along anyway. I’m sure Audiojungle will manage without my classics…Plinky Plonk a Bonk Bonk…and…Widdle Piddle Binky Plink.
Good luck everybody. I doubt I’ll be around on here much anymore but it’s been great and I’ve got to know a few of you super talented people a little bit and it was fun while it lasted.
All the best…Steve 
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Please remember that while we can discuss and debate ideas here we do not allow for personal attacks. Thanks!
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Hey mate…i love your stuff. Loved the Jazz tracks. Thats marketable anywhere !!!
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I received the same information a while ago, working for a TV serie. I’m not versed in copyright laws, but what I was told was that I cannot renounce to intelectual property of a registred work just by a third party notification. Let alone the authorization to distribute it without my consent. Actually, what the lawyer told me that time was even signing a full rights transfer it was not that simple, if the work was priorly registred.
I don’t know. What I do know is that I’m all in if there’s a intention to start a sue.
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Thank you for reminding @KingDog . Trying to get hold of my works with agreement updates, stealing my clients from the Market cart to redirect them to competing with me marketplace Elements, manipulating and withholding legally important answers to the questions - all of this can be considered Envato’s personal attack on me and other authors? Then issue a warning to Ben first. Because such answers are a direct dragging out of time until the entry into force of new amendments to the agreement.
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This is exactly how it looks to me… Envato not providing any more timely information to all authors and slowly waiting until the clock strikes June 1st.
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This is rhe link @SteelSound posted today. Live debate on Ai. Skip through to about 1:05 senator Blackburn talking about Copyright, Very informative! I urge everyone here to go take a look!
Thanks @SteelSound for the heads up!
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@BenLeong While I appreciate some things being noted here, there are still many questions for a lot of us.
I still think it’s absolutely insane to force everyone here to take part in this with no real context on what the deals could possibly be or how they will work (even a simple “what-if” type of example would really help us see how this plan would actually impact authors). Still no word on if an opt-out option is even on the table. A yes or a no would be nice (if it’s not that simple, it needs to be). So this entire area is still pretty grey at this point. Again I know this is their company and can do what they see fit, there’s just some major lack of transparency here. If people weren’t going to the forums here, they wouldn’t have a clue that this debate is even happening.
I understand we are talking about mere cents on the dollar here in terms of royalty for us authors. I highly doubt Envato would want to compensate all of us fairly with this deal. The scope is way too vast and there’s no way any of us will make a fortune so to speak.
It’s so odd that a decision or move this big be thrown at all of us in just a few weeks. You’ve given under a month to actually look into these plans/terms that are still just as grey area and confusing as the initial email to us. Again, lack of transparency. Was there a reason for a rush to get this stuff going?
What exactly could a deal with a third party look like? Surely the share would be more benefit to the third party/Envato than the actual author? Would that be a percentage take? An overall flat fee? Is there a minimum fee deal willing to be drawn up? What example could you show, even for just examples sake, on how a deal could look like? Make up a fake third party and show an example deal. I understand deals would vary depending on the third party, but sheesh at least an idea of what it would look like would be helpful.
What happens if you are opted in (again, if there doesn’t happen to be an opt-out) and they sign a perpetual deal with a third party and you remove your items here? Do you still get compensated? What if you get your account closed out? Will you get compensated then? Where does that royalty cut go? At that point Envato would take that portion and claim it as their IP correct? As the deal you made with said third party included that specific item for perpetually so it’s not like you can take that item or items out.
Is this third party able to dictate what to do with your work? If they decide to do a giveaway or a big discount sale or whatever the case may be, I assume if they did we wouldn’t be notified about it. Will they claim any type of ownership over the item? Will Envato then claim any type of ownership over the item? For example, the third party at ABC will advertise your item from Envato as “being on ABC”, when in fact you don’t actually use their platform or work for them. Or will they have to mention this is from the Envato Marketplace?
How will it work out if this third party has a subscription model? The royalty would be literal decimals of a penny if that’s the case I would imagine. I’m not apart of Elements in terms of author sales, that I know of anyway, so I don’t know specifically how that works over there. I would assume it’s a similar thing to how all of my record label works do on Spotify by making a few cents here and there. Don’t have a clue how that would translate to Elements authors.
I find it odd that this has happened so quickly with still so many questions than answers. I don’t know what I’m more frustrated at, the forced aspect of this masked as “for the better of the community” or how Envato is being so vague yet so quick on getting this plan going. The AI portion of this isn’t nearly as concerning as the trust with Envato and some of these confusing licensing terms with third parties. Partnerships happen in the corporate world, sure. But I feel they are also a bit more informative on the do’s and don’ts and the can’s and wont’s.
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So practically Envato since it will distribute our work to other platforms is ending exclusivity but not in favour of the authors. Envato also throws transparency out of the window since it won’t provide detailed item level breakdown. It ls basically elements for everyone. As for the piracy concerns it is not very reassuring reading about " careful measures to conduct evaluations of our partnerships with third parties" when every project published on envato elements is pirated in the first 30 minutes. This situation is also rendering any DMCA possibilities futile.
Sorry but this is unacceptable, it has been fun but it’s time to move on.
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It’s a pity! It’s a pity to see how Envato starts to spit more and more towards the authors, those authors thanks to whom she is a success!
From the very beginning, Envato played nice words about the fact that the authors are partners, and now it seems that the authors of the partners have been demoted to a position without rightful slaves!
Now Envato unfortunately communicates with the authors in an ultimatum form! If you do not like the author of the new updates, just leave! Thanks Envato!
“Thank you” for not inviting many authors to Elements, but at the same time adding their annoying Element ads to the cart, when some buyers could, at the stage of buying an item on the audiojungle platform, see a tempting offer for unlimited content, just go for more favorable conditions!
You created Elements and increased your profits at the expense of those authors who were not invited there by adding annoying Elements advertising, thereby reducing the flow of customers in the main markets!
And now you’ve decided to make it even better to quickly accept new updates that don’t seem to offer any benefit to the creators, but carry the risks for authors associated with exploiting their intellectual property for your Envato own purposes, and you don’t leave the choice of simply not accepting these agreements, you say or accept or leave! Well, I hope someday this will affect your families!
You can ban me after such a frank message, but it looks like I have nothing to lose! You have shown your true colors! The face is not human, you do not care about the authors, you do not put the community of authors in anything! But know that you cannot build happiness on someone else’s misfortune! Good luck in earning profit!
P.S. By the way, the fact that such mastadons as MisterHorse delete all their content suggests that in the pursuit of your greed, you will lose a lot of valuable authors, which will eventually lead to your own decline! Probably your goal in the future is to generate content using AI, and the same AI will apparently buy this content?!
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I’m already an envato elements member, but thanks.
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That’s it. We don’t have to take this insult anymore. I am now removing all of my content.
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From Emotions, I would like to move to the essence! I personally think, like many other authors, I have specific questions for the respected Envato team, led by its founders!
It seems to me that before forcing the authors to accept or not to accept this user agreement, the Envato team should at least give more detailed answers to the questions, below I will give questions that personally interest me in order decide on further work with this platform:
- “Distribution of your products on content platforms around the world” - This question interests me exclusively from the point of view of music. Does this mean that Envato will transfer (alienate exclusive copyright) the rights to the music of the authors of Audiojungle and Elements, to third parties to distribute music on services such as Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon and other streaming platforms and digital stores?
2)“Our copyright agreement now also includes the addition of ‘perpetual’ to our licensing terms for both Market and Elements.” - Does this mean that, in fact, Envato claims to transfer exclusive copyright to digital goods posted on the Envtao Market and Elements sites and retains the right to dispose of them “forever” even if the author at some point wants to completely leave the Marketplaces? Once again I will formulate the question for a correct answer, does Envato declare by this agreement that the authors transfer exclusive rights to use their digital assets on an indefinite basis or “forever”?
3)“For example, if your content is used to train an AI model, it may not be possible to make the AI forget any inferences from your item. This means that if you choose to remove your items after the updated conditions go into effect, your items may still be used in one capacity or another by a third party.” Does this apply only to AI, or if the author deletes the content after the changes come into effect, will the Envato sites retain perpetual rights to use and transfer digital assets (items) to third parties represented by companies not involved in the development of AI?
- “Without complete information about future arrangements, we cannot provide you with details of the fee payable to you, the Author.” A very strange point, why a large company like Envato does not calculate at least an approximate model of payment for their services and the percentage of authors that they can receive, why such a point should be introduced right now and not introduced gradually, when mechanisms for interaction with third parties represented by companies are will be developed, and when will the cost of envato services and the percentage of deductions from these transactions to the authors be determined? including, those involved in AI training?
5)“Elements Contributor Agreement #16 is effective June 1, 2023.
Conditions for Market Contributors 9 effective June 1, 2023
You do not need to take any action to accept the updated terms. However, if you do not want your content to be used in this enhanced capacity, you will need to remove your content from Envato Market and/or Elements before the changes go into effect on June 1, 2023. By continuing to use Envato Market and/or Elements after this time, you agree to the updated terms.” Why are authors left with only two choices, either agree with what Envato proposes (while Envato leaves many points unsaid for authors), or those who do not agree to leave? Why can’t we make the third option give authors the opportunity to choose whether they want to provide access to these updates or stay on the market without participating in the new model?
When you launched Envato Elements, you invited only a part of the authors from the main markets, and those who you invited definitely won, but those who you did not invite lost up to 50% of their income due to the outflow of customers to a more profitable subscription.
This time you connect all authors to new conditions, but unlike Elements, where there was at least some kind of understandable model of payments to authors and, consequently, their interest , the new model, judging by your own descriptions, does not guarantee the authors anything in terms of royalties, that is, it does not oblige you to pay us(?)…
Well, perhaps these are the most important questions that interest me personally! With all due respect to the Envato team and gratitude for the past years that I had the opportunity to work with your team, but still I would like to get clear and specific answers to the questions posed! In my humble opinion, the authors deserve honest and open answers in order to make an informed decision!
Thank you.
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Very good points, would love to see these questions answered directly. These would clarify things for us if answered in all honesty and directly. @BenLeong
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I feel like this is similar to loot boxes in games. The initial investment is your items in the market, and you have no idea if there will be any worthwhile rewards or if you’ll just end up losing. It’s highly frowned upon in video games, and I can understand why. At times, I see it very clearly that I should leave, while other times I hold onto hope that it might not be so bad and I feel tempted to stay and see what happens. It’s the typical fear of missing out on something good (highly unlikely).
I’m certain that I’ll delete some of my most valuable items, like the ones I’ve recorded with a real symphony orchestra, but I have doubts about others because many of them are tracks I don’t plan on doing anything with. Over the years, I’ve improved and I don’t feel they represent me anymore. So, it’s tempting to use them as a gamble for those loot boxes.
I’m going to wait a few days before making a decision since I don’t have a fully defined opinion yet. Certainly, if they address many of the questions raised here, it would help me make up my mind.
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