Who can chase foreign PRO royalties?

Envato Authors AudioJungle
23

Yes, sadly this can be quite a pain… I once got $4,000 for a track that was in a commercial for a whopping - wait for it - 1.5 seconds. It was pure luck that I found it and had someone help me, and I’m sure I have missed many opportunities like that.

I can only imagine that there must be hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions for some) floating around for the AJ top authors that need to find the right place to land.

It’s also a bit complicated since you have to wait (at least this is what my PRO tells me) before they can do something about it, since there is such a big delay with the correctly filled out reports from other countries anyway.

So I can’t just point to an ad that ran last week and say, “I want that $$$”. I have to wait 1-2 years to see if that money has come in, and only THEN can I say, “I never got money for that ad”… A bit frustrating.

2 Likes
24

What’s so sickening about this problem is that it is “man made” by envato. Their policy of “protecting the privacy” of clients is absurd! Never before in the history of this business could a client walz into a music library, or music house and get a track for $308, use it on a super bowl commercial, and not communicate the information about end usage to the seller (and we all know the real seller is Envato). There once was a time that if you wanted to obtain the rights to a song or soundtrack you would have to submit a request for quote and detail:

  1. Name of advertiser/ Product /Brand
  2. Type of end usage? Internet, TV, Radio? All of the above?
  3. Territory? USA? World? One City? Region? One country only?
  4. First Air Date?
  5. Name and e-mail address of requestor? Company name they work for?
  6. Title of commercial?
  7. How many spots are getting produced
    and so on.

Music on TV spots is VERY SERIOUS business, but it has been made to be a total joke with these ridiculously low prices and carelessness, and disregard for pertinent and crucial information to facilitate “performance royalty” collections.

Again, you favored top sellers who are the “pet” authors to King Envato simply enable this abuse because you never speak up about it. If I were you James…and PZ and Tim Mc, and Soundroll and anyone else with 10,000 or more units sold, I’d be dialing up the pressure on super high heat to get this straightened out once and for all. Hundreds of thousands if not over 1 miliion dollars in performance royalties for TV advertising broadcast usage have gone unclaimed because of audio jungle not asking that clients fill this information in when they buy licenses here. This is NOT a royalty free site but it acts as one. Envato says “we’re not the seller, you guys are” and we all know that this is total BS! If we are the seller then why are we not getting the crucial information we need to collect performance royalties from TV Spots? Why are we not given the ability to communicate directly with “our buyers”? Why are “our buyers” not offering their e-mail addresses and name of company and name of person who is licensing the intellectual property for broadcast?

James, if this spot truly did air on the Super Bowl in 2018, you have been screwed out thousands in performance royalties. If APRA did not get wind of this and filed a claim with ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC, sorry you are out of luck with these performance royalties. There is a process to facilitate these collections, but again the process would be made SO MUCH EASIER if clients were forced to reveal the pertinent information on their invoices while they are buying broadcast licenses.

ENVATO simply does not care because nothing is in it for them. Why do they want to “make it a bit harder” for clients to license a track and ask for more information?

“When the community succeeds, we all succeed.”

Sorry, but I have to be highly critical of all fortunate top sellers getting all the promotion in the world on this site, but you folks are the grand enablers allowing this to happen without complaining or pressuring Envato to change their approach to high end broadcast licenses (which are happening more and more)

Not only are you all grand enablers, you also are destroying the entire music licensing landscape with this support of subscription models!

What kind of music producer do you want to become - a writer with a reputation for servicing high end ad campaigns? or one where you cater to the low end youtube buyers with no money for $16.50 all you can eat?

I am sorry to be rude and frank, but this IS the reality of what is happening before our very own eyes.

You get what you sign up for in life.

I mean really man, does anyone care about “performance royalties” getting collected from lucrative TV spots at ENVATO???

Doesn’t EVERYONE realize that music on TV SPOT campaigns is the most lucrative and profitable component of this business??? Do YOU GUYS AT ENVATO UNDERSTAND THIS? AM I TALKING TO A WALL? WHY DO ALL YOU TOP SELLERS JUST SEEMINGLY IGNORE THIS FACT AND LOOK THE OTHER WAY?

I am shocked that the current most successful music producer here selling 1500 units a month is not even a member of a PRO. Do you really just want to leave tens of thousands of performance royalty money on the table?

End of rant…but my God are we heading in the wrong direction…again! with our business. Why???

Catering to those with no money (Elements unlimited downloads)
Not asking any questions about TV spot licenses - sure just pay the fee and you are all set! easy! Hassle free! in perpetuity!

Sorry top sellers, you folks are the grand enablers in this scenario. You are fully supporting this broken system. Do something to bring about change. Music producers are willingly offering cheap deals, well guess what happens when you do that? Corporate monsters just gobble up the savings and line the pockets of their top executives! They are not asking for all this cost savings you reviewers and top selling authors are granting to them. No one asked for cheaper music, but you gave it to them.

TV spot advertisers are just laughing all the way to the cost savings bank!

@FLumen - Yes, I too once made $60,000 from 2 seconds of usage of my music on a Big commercial campaign that ran for 3 years. (I was VERY LUCKY I might add). The money did not come in one lump sum but over 3 years that was the total of all performance royalties. And oh, by the way, the client (an ad agency in new york city) did reveal who they were, the product being advertised, the name of the ad agency, etc. etc.

2 Likes
25

@SteelSound You have some really good points in your post regarding PRO money lost, and I think it´s absurd too that these revenue streams are staying uncollected.

I do think it could have an impact if more top authors spoke up about the broadcast issues, as its been quite lonesome here last months: Broadcast licenses... yet again!

Maybe Envato is actually after all working on presenting us better solutions these days, if so it would great timing if you have thoughts to share @pinkzebra @AurusAudio @TimMcMorris @soundroll and anyone else that want to speak up and push forward :slight_smile:

Thanks for your time!

1 Like
26

Not just a bit. The whole system leaves us musicians alone in the dark, with no prediction as how much we’ll get payed, if we get payed anyway. As an income stream backend royalties can make a big difference if you’re a musician writing for libraries and it’s very frustrating that some of the money deosn’t find a way to the respectful owner.

I stand by my point, this has also to do with Envato’s reputation amongst customers.

27

Not True! The solution is so simple: make buyers fill out end usage information when the buy broadcast licenses in the manner I pointed out above. This is how it is done at every major music house/ music library/ or music publisher in the world. If you need a tune from Universal Music Group, the buyer will have to send in a request to license a tune where the EXACT END USAGE is clearly defined:
Example
5 :30 second TV spots
Product/ Brand: WIX
Territory: The World
Usage: TV radio and Internet
First Air Date: February 7, 2019
Term: 1 year
Title of spots: “Build sites with ease”, etc
Name of requestor:
Email Address:
Phone Number:
Company or ad agency:

If we could get this information for BROADCAST licenses, we could all facilitate performance royalty collection with our PRO’s. WHY DOES ENVATO NOT WANT TO HELP US? CAN ANYONE ANSWER THAT QUESTION? WHY IS THIS INFO SO HARD TO OBTAIN?

I mean, my God, this was the way it was done since the beginning of time but now the business has just been turned into a laughing stock of cheap sh_t that is 100% disrespected as a joke of commodity. We’re now in a phase where we rely on watching TV and using tunesat to “spy” on or “investigate” how our music is getting used, because these eveil stock music sites need to “protect the privacy of the buyer”. SAD! Ridiculous! I’d be willing to bet that most ad agencies came to AJ expecting to reveal the information about end usage, but say "wow I just click buy and i have my track! " Whooopee! that sure was easy and hassle free!

…and boom…a “new normal” is born. Pathetic!

2 Likes
28

Yep. Many experienced TV composers say that our “additional” income from PRO royalties can be as high as our regular sale income. But how can we chase royalties if we usually do not have any data about broadcasted projects…

29

4 to 6 NATIONAL USA TV Spots in heavy rotation (say 10,000 to 20,000 air plays in a year) could net the writer and publisher OVER $100,000 in performance royalties in a single year very, very easily. ENVATO does not seem to care. They refuse to get us the info we need for top Tiered broadcast licenses. That is just a fact. Top selling authors getting screwed by the lack of info seem to find this as “ok by me!” …I am making the most noise on their behalf, they remain silent, submissive, and join elements.

“um…I guess I’ll join elements to find a new revenue stream!”

30

I appreciate your noise and drive Steelsound, but please lets focus on the broadcast issues and not Elements in this thread. If we can´t unite as authors, how in the world is Envato going to take us seriously? We need the top authors support here and I don´t think insulting them is the way to go.

Let´s just agree that we are losing out on a lot of money here and we all want to collect the revenue we rightfully should have.

2 Likes
31

@SteelSound, why don’t you include a brief info to customer and PRO sheets in your zip file?

1 Like
32

  1. I include this pdf with PRO data. Some of buyers use it, but most of them somehow do not fill cue sheets properly and I have to chase royalties by myself. Keep in mind that often there is a long chain of people between a buyer and someone who fills a cue sheet.

  2. There are different royalty-collecting systems. E.g. in US TV commercials they do not use paper cue sheets, e.g. ASCAP uses Soundmouse and Numerator to automatically find royalties. @AurusAudio this is about your case. In this scenario your PRO will not collect any royalties without your action, because US PROs will not “automatically” collect information about foreign ads composers = they will not automatically send it to your PRO… That’s why we need data about projects. (But please - this should be verified, I’m no sure at 100% about those US commercials.)

2 Likes
33

So complicated… It’s 2019, not 1979. :confused:
So many tools available to PRO-s like TuneSat, Soundmouse, Content ID. I don’t understand why it has to be such a mess.

3 Likes
34

Nope. I’ve received royalties from BMI which have been collected in Ireland and Australia. But could be that my publisher made sure that those placements got reported.

35

What makes it “complicated” is the lack of information we get on broadcast licenses. Enavto could solve this in a heart beat if they mined the data I mentioned above for broadcast licenses…especially for TV spots:

  1. Name of advertiser/ Product /Brand
  2. Type of end usage? Internet, TV, Radio? All of the above?
  3. Territory? USA? World? One City? Region? One country only?
  4. First Air Date?
  5. Name and e-mail address of requestor/ buyer? Name of company they work for?
  6. Title of commercial?
  7. How many spots are getting produced?
    and so on.

If this information were to be included on all broadcast licenses sold by Envato (Yeah sure…we’re the seller…what a joke!) Then this “problem” would be gone forever.

TV editors, audio post engineers, ad agency producers, and post house producers have been trained in passing that information along for decades, but now ENVATO says “we need to protect our clients privacy” but then they say “we’re not the sellers, you guys are”

What a joke!

If I am the true seller of my intellectual property, I feel entitled to that information listed above when I am selling the top tier broadcast license or really…any broadcast license. I sold a $999 license recently to an agancy in Korea with Lexus and Samsung as their largest clients. I asked Envato support for the name of the buyer so I could facilitate communication about the TV spots. Envato refuses to pass that information on to me and then simultaneously tells me that I am the seller, not them. They know the true buyer name, I do not, yet I am the seller?

36

You didn’t understand me. My Polish pro ZAIKS can’t find royalties from US TV commercials. But your BMI can find royalties from Polish TV commercials. Correct me if I’m wrong. Yeah, I’m on the way to register in US.

And yes, publishers take care of royalties because they earn a lot of money from this. And they simply chase foreign royalties. That’s why I would share my publisher rights and royalties with Envato if they would like to be my publisher. I suppose someday Envato will start a publishing thing, too much cash to loose.

1 Like
37

Yes, seems that Envato is speculating on quick and easy money from youtubers and smaller production companies only. They already made sure to raise the quality on the markets, the next logical step would be to aim for bigger clients and end uses, which ultimately brings price structures and PRO information into play.

They had enough time and chances to earn money to run global spots and establish the Envato market as the place to go for people looking for creative works. They ignored this great opportunity.

Another question that I was asking myself: Isn’t it time to finally drop the silly and childish marketplace names like Audiojungle and Themeforest? Wouldn’t it be time to unite everything under the Envato markets? Envato Themes, Envato Audio?

This would add credibility to the market.

38

Yeah, I agree. But again, that’s still a lot of work and communication between us and our PRO, we still need to chase our money and hope for the best in that case.

People can abuse this and enter the wrong info, type in the wrong stuff etc. People make mistakes.
Also, I had clients who bought broadcast licenses and have decided to not use my track at all. I would spend time chasing ghost money.
Services like soundmouse work great, you cannot cheat that system and it’s automated and reliable. This stuff should be implemented worldwide by now…

39

WT - What I am saying is that if we get invoices stating that the buyer bought a broadcast license to use on WIX TV spots even just that helps tremendously! At least we can go to numerator and find the spot then file the claim. ALL top sellers with some clout here need to dial up the pressure so that information gets passed on to us. YES it is 2019 and Enavto has grown so much so fast that the biggest companies and advertisers in the world are officially here shopping for music in spots and exploiting the cheap prices for massive cost savings.
-They often only pay what? …perhaps $300 to $999 for the license? This is peanuts! Yes wix paid $308 for AURUS’ track.
-Then they do not have to say who they are? *(name of buyer or agency or post house) what it will be used for? TV spot? Radio Spot? Internet spot? What country it will air in? When? and so on…
This is unprecedented and needs to end now, not 3 years from now. It needs to end yesterday. We need this information for TV spots.

2 Likes
41

It is true wave toys, SOCAN does not pay performance royalties for TV spots airing in Canada. Why? I was actually told that their philosophy for not paying for “jingles” or “commercials” is that SOCAN assumes a writer is getting paid very well up front for the sync license BECAUSE it is a commercial. Indeed that is 1995 thinking and not 2019 thinking where we live in a world of internet stores selling music for $5 a license.

Folks, I’ll be honest, the only reason to even be here in AJ is to “fish” for that big catch. Sure I’d love to see my unit volume of standard licenses net me $3000 to $7000 a month consistently, but that is not my reality. I am sending out 243 lines (tracks) hoping that one big fish comes along each year, finds my track, and installs it in a big ad campaign in the USA, or Germany, or perhaps England-France-Belgium-Holland territories. I assume APRA in Australia pays well too.

If you get lucky and land the big TV spot with your track on it, those PRO royalty checks just skyrocket. Even the goofy cheap looking infomercials pay. I just collected 2K from cheesy nutrisystem infomercials. I found the tv spot on Tunesat, then found it in numerator, then filed the claim at SESAC, and I was paid.

SOCAN is a problem, and it’s a real shame they don’t pay performance royalties for TV spots. But remember…ENVATO is a problem for us, because they refuse to mine the basic data we need for TV spots.

5 Likes
42

Guys you can rant forever about PROs and Customers not taking the appropriate actions to get your placements reported. Or you could finally approach Envato to make the marketplaces more credible and address the real problem here: Envato’s reputation as beeing a cheap and fast supplier of music which many don’t care to take serious when it comes to broadcast placements.

43

I think proper use of ADP is already starting to slowly improve this reputation. We just need to demand an update in the broadcast department, oversized buyers fees are going where? Hire someone dear Envato. It´s a good start what we have here compared to other stock sites, but somebody needs to finish the job, implementing the last few details.