Waves IR-L Reverb in orchestral music


#1

Hi guys! I’m using Waves IR-L for my orchestral songs but i’ve got problems with it. Reviewers said I’m not using it well and I’ve got my work rejected.

So my question is: For those who use Waves IR-L, Wich IR file do you prefer? How much processed signal? How long?

Do you use the same IR for the full orchestra?

And most important… Is IR-L worthwhile? Or must I move to another convolution?

Thanks in advance guys, and excuse my bad english!


#2

I used the Waves IR a while ago but never was happy with it. First I thought “Wow, I can have the reverb of the sydney opera in my music…” but it didn’t really work in the mixes. Sometimes it makes the arrangement sound smaller as without reverb. I started to compare the Waves IR with algorithmic reverbs and even the free epicverb sounded better, more musical, not so sterile.


#3

I can add my 5 cents.

If you want to make a smooth and rich symphonic soundtrack sound using sample libraries, forget about IR reverbs.

One of the main reasons is - most of today’s orchestral samples already has some subtle or huge amount of natural reverb(except VSL, maybe), even the most expensive ones, so, adding an Impulse of an Opera Hall won’t make it sound much better in the term of production music… .

Not for “Zimmer-like” orchestra tracks. definitely.

I recommend to “play” with sound by adding some usual digital reverb, rather than expect amazing effects from IR plugins.

Just an opinion.


#4

I tend to have a hard time with IR’s and convolution reverbs in shaping the ENTIRE reverb signature. Especially in the tail…music is very much about inconsistency, and motion, and change, and a static, one-shot-fits-all reverb tail from a convolution impulse is by definition unchanging, fixed, and…just bleh.

On the other hand, I find IR’s capture the Early Reflections of a place the best. It’s hard for an algorithm to replicate the chaos that happens when sound waves hit each other and go crazy in a room, so they tend to sound too simple and orderly and clean.

So, I use the Early Reflections on Waves IR. Clairmont, Herbert Zipper and Belle Meade and Presidio are the ones I tend to use, but then replace the tails with an algorithmic like Valhallaroom. You could even adjust the tail length to match the impulse’s length.

Or…try baking it yourself by having two instances of IR, one running just tail and one running ER, and send the tail through a really, really, really slow chorus or flange, particularly one that does its thing in the stereo field, and once you tweak it right (i.e., so that there’s just some motion in the tail, not an actual chorusing effect) then it gives it some life.

One thing I didn’t ask was what samples you’re using in these! Most of these ideas apply for VSL or LASS, or something else which has very little room information, either in ER or tail. If you’re running, say, a Spitfire Instrument from the Decca Tree through Waves IR, you probably are doing it wrong!

And finally, don’t feel like you have to use a hall because it’s “Orchestral” music. If you’ve got a good scoring stage ambience for your instruments, but they’re just too dry, then you might try something like the Plates from the free Bricasti set of impulses. A fair number of orchestral recordings have been given a good dose of Plate Reverb to finish off a Decca or ORTF setup that was too dry, so you’d be in pretty good company!

btw, you might share a soundcloud link to something that was rejected for Reverb. That’d get more ‘specific’ tips!


#5

If you got rejected then it means it does not sound good,use normal reverb like Waves Rverb,Trueverb,Reverberate,even your built-in DAW reverb will do the job if you know how to use it. i still can’t imagine why your item is rejected because “you are not using reverb properly”,like SketchpadAudio said, give us soundcloud link to your rejected item.


#6

Hey thanks a lot for feedback. I’m using EWQLSO but im planning to move to symphobia. So, I’ve started to forget IR and learn more about algorithmic reverbs. And I don’t have my rejected item because of reverb, i’ve erased it, sorry.

Btw, do you know a great book of sampled orchestra mastering? Something about reverbs, compressors, eqs etc… for virtual orchestras.

Thanks a lot!!!


#7
Andrew_G said

I can add my 5 cents.

If you want to make a smooth and rich symphonic soundtrack sound using sample libraries, forget about IR reverbs.

Might I suggest alternative IR reverbs like QL Spaces? Honestly, I can’t imagine “making smooth and rich symphonic soundtrack[s]” without IR reverbs, especially ones that come with instrument-specific reverbs that make it easy to place instruments in real space, rather than having to fiddle around with the large number of parameters/EQ’s necessary to duplicate the effect.


#8
anxogcd said

Hey thanks a lot for feedback. I’m using EWQLSO

Are you certain that the built-in IR reverb isn’t on the samples as well? I can see if you’ve got the built-in per-instance IR reverb going and then you’re running it through something else how you could get rejected for having weird reverb issues, but, honestly, the only time I’ve been soft-rejected for reverb was on a piano sample that was live recorded with too much space in the mix.


#9

I think it’s an issue with the Waves IR plugin. Anxogcd opened some other threads where he posted links to his tracks and the problems he has remind me of my own problems with the Waves IR:








I don’t know if the impulses or the algorithm of the Waves IR is the problem, but I never got a satisfying reverb with this plugin. It felt a little like the Alesis Quadraverb, too little was too little and too much ruined your mix. I think the Waves IR is one of those reverbs that don’t sit well in a mix.


#10
lemega said

I think it’s an issue with the Waves IR plugin. Anxogcd opened some other threads where he posted links to his tracks and the problems he has remind me of my own problems with the Waves IR:








I don’t know if the impulses or the algorithm of the Waves IR is the problem, but I never got a satisfying reverb with this plugin. It felt a little like the Alesis Quadraverb, too little was too little and too much ruined your mix. I think the Waves IR is one of those reverbs that don’t sit well in a mix.

You need to explain exactly how you are using this reverb in your DAW, Waves IR L probably isn’t the best but it shouldn’t sound like that. It sounds like you have the IR L as an insert over the whole mix and have the mix knob totally wet.


#11
SkylineAudio said

You need to explain exactly how you are using this reverb in your DAW, Waves IR L probably isn’t the best but it shouldn’t sound like that. It sounds like you have the IR L as an insert over the whole mix and have the mix knob totally wet.

+1. Tools don't make a track, it's all about the way you use them. IR-L is an excellent piece of software, if the tune was rejected you were either using it too much or in a wrong way:
  • are you using reverb as insert or send? Reverb is usually a send type of effect, this way you can apply the same reverb processor on different instruments (in other words, putting them in the same space), this helps in terms of realism.
  • in send mode, are you using them pre or post fader? Using them in pre fader helps you control the distance you put between the listener and the source: the lower the fader, the bigger the distance. In post-fader you have a different prospective, but it's a matter of taste.
  • are you filtering the reverb channel? Usually after reverb you need a hi-pass filter (for cleaning up low frequencies, that often create mud in the mix) and sometimes a low pass filter (to clean up high frequencies reflections).
    An interesting thing to know: our auricle is a low pass filter at approx. 4Khz for sounds coming from behind us: filtering reverb at this frequency can help making listeners think that the sound they hear is actually coming from behind (try it!)
In general, clients often complain about too much reverb used in tracks: try to use it sparingly and to create spacey mixes with panning and eq.

Hope it helps.
Best,
Pietro

#12

Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge! I’m learning a lot in this forum with people as you. So, I’m going to prove your techniques. I hope none item will be rejected again. Thanks!!!


#13
Andrew_G said

I can add my 5 cents.

If you want to make a smooth and rich symphonic soundtrack sound using sample libraries, forget about IR reverbs.

One of the main reasons is - most of today’s orchestral samples already has some subtle or huge amount of natural reverb(except VSL, maybe), even the most expensive ones, so, adding an Impulse of an Opera Hall won’t make it sound much better in the term of production music… .

Not for “Zimmer-like” orchestra tracks. definitely.

I recommend to “play” with sound by adding some usual digital reverb, rather than expect amazing effects from IR plugins.

Just an opinion.

Totally agree here. No use in adding extra verb on most orchestral tracks. It just muddies up the mix. IR verbs are great, but be careful: too much of anything is a bad thing.


#14

Do you have the close mic for EWQLSO?
If not, get them and blend them with the stage mic or just use the close mic together with a reverb… I think the stage mic is a little to wet in its own.