Why Audio Jungle needs to accept registered tracks!


#1

So I was checking my catalog on BMI, and I saw something I never new could even show up. A cue sheet from a TV show on the Travel Channel. I thought they would only show me tracks that I have submitted for registration, but apparently they show you submitted cue sheets too? Now, I’m pretty sure they bought at least some of the music on Audio Jungle (one of the tracks is only on Audio Jungle at the moment), yet they still sent in Cue sheets. The tracks are not registered either. So how does that work Audio Jungle? Even though you say we aren’t allowed to register tracks, decent honest producers and video makers send in Cue sheets anyway. I’m not sure how it works anyway, since the tracks aren’t registered. I probably won’t get royalties.
It has given me some motivation to register more of my tracks now, because I know that my music may actually end up on television.


#2

I see cue sheets fairly regular with BMI. If the filer was provided with your IPI# or looks it up, you could see them in your catalog, although they don’t always get there.

With BMI, a cue sheet can actually register your song with your PRO even if you don’t register it yourself. That’s stated on the BMI site here:

http://www.bmi.com/creators/royalty/general_information

But for that to happen, as far as I know, they probably have to list your IPI# on the cue sheet and credit you as the composer for the unregistered song. Otherwise, without your PRO information, it would be difficult to get hooked up with your BMI account. Since AJ doesn’t provide your PRO information, the only way I think they could have matched with your record would be if other songs on that same cue sheet came from a different library that did present your PRO info - or - the filer looked you up, which you can do on the BMI site, and assumed that the only name that appears in the lookup was you. Maybe BMI made the assumption when the cue sheet came in. BMI should have the definitive answer on what they do when they don’t have your IPI# on a cue sheet, but I’m thinking they can’t really just go by a composer’s name if they can’t verify that you’re a member. Many people can have the same name. Since the AJ track may now be considered registered, you might get royalties. I’m not 100% certain that cue sheet songs will always be registered, but it looks like they will as long as the cue sheet gets matched to you.

Here’s another thing. What happens if a production company gets a $19 standard license, then creates a production that will be aired by a broadcaster who already pays a PRO blanket license to cover broadcast use? Are they in violation if they already have the broadcast use covered by the broadcaster’s PRO blanket? Based on what I see in AJ’s license descriptions, if they’ve got a blanket covering the broadcast use, they may be good to go with a standard license. There’s no need to pay for something you already have covered. The standard license covers the sync and there won’t be any downloaded or physical products. While the actual license states “no broadcast use”, the question is whether that is there only because they did not bundle performance rights, which are actually a different license that can be separate from a bundled license and it’s not needed if you already have them through a blanket PRO license. If it is claiming to be one of the sync license requirements, meaning the sync is invalid if used for broadcast, that might be different, so it’s a clarification situation. But, you could have larger production companies and broadcasters buying $19 licenses and airing the music on prime time with the broadcast allowed by the blanket and composers possibly not getting any royalties and cut out of a larger broadcast license share. Violation or not, it could happen and a composer might not be compensated. Although what happened to you could cover them, not being upfront with supplying a composer’s PRO info often results in the royalties being missed, especially if you’re counting on cue sheets for work registration.


#3

Thank you for the insight. I really appreciate it.

I think I may actually get royalties for it, because on the cue sheet it says “Registration Origination: Cue Sheet.” So to me, it’s like it’s a given that it’s registered now, by Ex Post Facto I guess? This has been getting me thinking, and making me regret spending so much time on Audio Jungle (sorry guys).

I remember a while back I had a sale on the highest tier license, and I was all excited, but I never knew what the piece of music was used for, and still don’t to this day. Had I registered the track, I would have had a good chance of knowing what it was used for. On top of that, I may be collecting royalties on it that would have payed me more than the upfront license on Audio Jungle. I’ve had some other higher tier licenses too.
So registering a track may be a good way to track what your track is used for, not just for back end royalties.
The AJ way of doing things just seems cheap, impersonal and sketchy to me. We just sell and sell and never really have any kind of connection (except on some occasions) and we never know what it’s used for. It’s one-and-done.
I’m more certain than ever that I want to devote less time to Audio Jungle.


#4

@ OVATION…I have been trumpeting this for months. This is a no brainer folks. Just let us display our PRO affiliation on our profiles so clients have the data they need to fill out cue sheets. We should all have a statement that we make saying “If you are going to broadcast this music on TV, you are expected to enter my track title on a cue sheet and file that with the PRO of your country and my PRO ideally . My writer name is_______________, My publishing company is________________________My PRO is__________________________My IPI# is____________________________
Please email me if you need further assistance getting information for your cue sheets. If you can be kind enough to e-mail me a copy of the cue sheet, I’d be grateful.”

Envato as supplier of a “sellling platform” does not need to get involved in the cue sheet/ PRO paperwork/ data entry work. They do not need to attempt to act as publisher.

Every writer deserves proper writing credit when writing credit is do. It’s that simple. Probably 90% of all writers here are members of a PRO. Lets stop pretending that this is not the case. The PRO issue is never going to go away and customers still continue to write to us privately asking for our PRO details when a cue sheet is involved. To top sellers - can you guys reveal how often you are getting e-mails where the clients ask for your PRO details?

Where are the top selllers on this? You guys have voiced opinions about ADREV and inspiration and corporational and the corporateness, and corporately epic search engine issues…but the most important issue …PRO…you guys stay tight lipped? Why?


#5

THIS.

Envato, please respond.


#6

Yes, we need a response on this, some action!
Are you prepared to kick out everyone who is affiliated with a PRO Audio Jungle?
I am a small time artist with NONE, absolutely none of my tracks registered (at the time of getting the cue sheet). I cannot imagine how many top sellers get cue sheets sent in all the time. So your policy of not allowing tracks to be registered seems a little confining, but also pretty much useless.
Any company or entity that will be putting the music in venues or media worthy of sending cue sheets, surely have the budget for royalty payment. And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t it the broadcasters who pay royalties, not the buyer of the music license? Allowing us to register our music will also give us some level of protection. If a buyer is dishonest (do you think nobody is dishonest?) and buys a 19$ license when they should have bought a $300, at least we may get back end royalties. Are you in favor of artists, or just getting more sales for yourselves? It seems to be that because you don’t benefit from the PRO registration, you don’t care. Is that it Audio Jungle? Because it sure screws us. Thanks.
As stated by Ovation, Steel Sound, and others, even if we don’t register a track, BMI (and probably other PROs) can register the tracks for you.


#7

That is something I had considered before electing to not sell here pending the outcome of this issue and the search engine issue. You can most likely put whatever you want barring profanity and bigotry on your profile page, but considering AJ’s policy of non-registration and statement that buyers will generally not have to pay performance royalties (depending on country), I might want to clear this situation before doing so. Even then, we need PRO registration above all else.

The reason I hesitate to fully endorse the PRO information listing on a profile is that a good number of customers understand that when you provide your PRO info, you’re expecting royalties. There is no other reason to provide it. When your music gets registered via a cue sheet, you’re probably going to get paid royalties that AJ told the buyer the broadcaster would not need to pay because it was covered by the direct license bundled in the broadcast license.

This seems like “no problem” if the broadcaster has a blanket license. You get paid and the broadcaster who has a blanket, and not all of them do, has already paid the fees to cover you. But, it might be a problem for the PRO, even if a blanket has been paid because it’s technically an unnecessary allotment of funds from the royalty pool the PRO has collected for payments. AJ already issued a direct license bundled with the broadcast license to cover performance, so you are not supposed to get an allotment of royalties from your PRO. And if the broadcaster does not have a blanket license, BMI (my PRO) WILL ask them to pay a fee if they were not informed that a direct license was already paid. That is something BMI requires of the composer or publisher when a direct license is issued because they will be allotting that unnecessary payment, either from a blanket or a single use fee. That might be the same for ASCAP, SESAC and some non-US PROs. I’m sure the non-blanket holding broadcaster will just explain the direct license and not have to pay, but there may be some questions from the original buyer about what happened that AJ doesn’t want to have to deal with. I think 99% of us are not going to tell our PRO about a direct license being issued through an AJ broadcast license and AJ is not obligated because they are not a stakeholder in the song. Since this royalty payment basically contradicts what AJ is telling their buyers, they may have an issue with posting your info on the profile page. Perhaps asking them this question and presenting what happened here will open some eyes to things they have not considered. I, personally, prefer to do that before trying to circumvent this issue.

Also, once your song gets registered by a cue sheet, technically, it would have to be removed from AJ because it’s now registered and violates their non-registration requirement. Let’s say that songs by top sellers like @TimMcMorris, @pinkzebra and @soundroll have been “involuntarily registered” through cue sheets several times by now. It doesn’t seem fair that they would now have to remove their top selling songs due to this registration. That would be a serious travesty of justice and put a big whole in AJ’s wallet. There is leverage that should be useful for our argument, si o no? I think yes!

I’m obviously not in disagreement with the goal here, which is to allow PRO registration and I would love to be able to provide my PRO info with no fear of conflict with AJ’s policy. I’ve never been a fan of PRF and the more that I’ve looked at this issue, the more I dislike the business model, along with generic titling due to search engines that give titles priority. This is why I decided to withhold uploading anything until this PRO issue and the search engine issue are addressed. I don’t have any unregistered songs, don’t see the point in composing new unregistered material limited to this site as long as this business model applies, and I want to be able to upload my registered back catalog and take advantage of this useful client base. But, I’m just not sure that posting the info while AJ is telling people no backend royalties will be paid isn’t a problem for them. It may not circumvent this issue. They still need to address PRO registration and the best outcome for everyone is for them to allow it.

Without a doubt, we need a response from Envato ASAP. I’ve noted that they listen when top sellers speak, so if that’s you, please feel free to join in on the fun!


#8

I’ve got several emails from buyers asking me to sign agreements that i am a composer of the music they bought and that I had to sign that I am NOT a member of any PRO.
Of course, I didn’t sign on those papers. Actually, if I would sign on that, they probably would fill their company name or I don’t know who else’s name to the cue sheets, and would get the royalties as a publisher maybe.
So, I am with you guys! It is time to let us selling PRO registered music, for our protection and for the royalties we can get from PRO’s.


#9

Yes Soundroll is exactly right. By NOT allowing PRO and NOT having an intelligent cue sheet policy for usage of cues on TV shows, the door is wide open for rampant corruption such as the producer of the TV show listing his wife, son, and daughter as the writer and publisher of cues sourced from AJ. This can happen, has happened, and will happen again. I’ve been around long enough to hear all the stories and actually see it in action on cue sheets. YES, ASCAP shows all the cue sheets in Artists/ members on line accounts and ASCAP members can study and analyze the names of writers and publishers on cue sheets. I have seen cue sheets where 1 name is co-writer of 90% of the cues on hundreds of cue sheets! The temptation for fraud and corruption is just too easy. If people are presenting sign off documents stating “You are not a member of a PRO, please sign here, and etc etc.” That clearly shows intent to give “writers credit” to someone else or take advantage of an “opportunity” to send the writers royalties to someone who did not write the cue! AJ, if you do not put a policy in place you are enabling the opportunity for this kind of corrupt behavior. So let’s encourage broadcasters, TV Networks, and TV show producers to do what is right. Lets get a cue sheet PRO policy in place and do things right for TV broadcast usages. By The way AJ, Did you ever think that this policy change may actually attract more customers? Did you ever think that TV Networks may chose to NOT shop here because of the no PRO policy?


#10

I find this Pro policy so confusing I’m literally too worried to buy any audio here anymore. Part of my attraction to AudioJungle in the past has been that it’s non-complicated.

In short, I don’t feel I know enough to be trying to make use of AJ anymore.


#11

If you’re not using the tracks for broadcast, it doesn’t affect you. If you are buying tracks to use on tv you would just fill out your cue sheet with the author/publisher info. I’m assuming you’re just talking about standard licenses for youtube, and if so, it doesn’t affect you.


#13

You can uncheck “Pro” music in the search and everything will be simple for you again :slight_smile:


#14

I understand your frustration Sarah. Unfortunately, for me, I cannot make a living just hoping that I get hundreds and hundreds of sales on a single track with standard licenses. Those broadcast licenses are what will pay the bills eventually. If you don’t broadcast them on air, then you have nothing to worry about as far as a PRO is concerned. So as Enrize said, just uncheck the “PRO” music parameter in the search criteria, and you don’t have to think about it ever again (if you have cookies and search history saved).


#15

Thanks everyone.

I have zero intention of playing/performing on air, but sometimes it’s nice to have this kind of sound as backing for a live PowerPoint presentation or video background. It seems that scenario precludes a lot of music here.

I’m glad I asked and could give feedback.

I’ve always respected artists rights. It’s your decision.


#16

A lot of videohive templates use PRO music. I follow links from those and end up at a PRO artist, which means even more added time searching for a substitute.

I’ve decided to switch to Pond5 for music. The interface makes it simpler not to end up in the wrong places. I don’t mind paying more if it means keeping things simple.


#17

Actually, on the contrary is precludes NONE of the music here. Just because music is PRO registered does not mean it has to only be used for broadcast purposes! ALL music on AudioJungle is available for usages such as PowerPoint presentations etc, PRO registration is not in any way a restriction on such usages. Please feel free to ask me anything further on that subject, either on this thread or in an email or private message. I just want you to feel comfortable with buying anything on AudioJungle, without fear of complication.


#18

No need to switch. There’s absolutely nothing to fear or to do if the end product doesn’t get aired on TV or Radio. If you’re using the music on Audiojungle for a Youtube video or like in your case for a Power Point presentation, then you can ignore whether a track is registered with PRO or not. PRO information is relevant for Broadcasters only.

PRO comes into action as soon as you’re a broadcaster or a production company with the intention to sell it to a broadcaster. If you’re such a company then you just have to pass along the PRO data from the Authors description of the track. Again, you don’t have to worry about or pay anything extra if you’re not a broadcaster.

PRO is standard in production music. Furthermore It’s safe to say that Audiojungle remains the best source for Royalty Free tracks. For more Information about PRO please visit the Help FAQ: https://help.market.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/208477896


#19

I could be wrong, but I think having the inclusion of PRO registered music, and allowing us to advertise that we are PRO registered, is actually driving more types of clients to the site. After having no extended licenses for an extended period of time (no pun intended) I’ve had 3 in the last couple months alone. So I think overall it is good for the musician, even though some clients may be turned off by it. We have to put food on the table, and this is my full time job. I have 2 little ones to feed.


#20

Thank you. This response helps. I’m not making anything for TV or radio.

I was thinking of making a video to use as part of a presentation.


#21

So if I’m presenting a PowerPoint, and as part of presenting, I click play to start a video that I made that has some music in it then I can still use PRO music?

If that’s the case, then all is good.