Where is AJ On PRO ?

Hi Purple Frog. Bars, and restaurants play popular music that you hear on the radio every day (Bruno Mars, Katy Perry, Foo Fighters, etc, etc) They do pay royalties or really annual blanket license fees to simply play music from either the BMI catalog or ASCAP catalog in the USA. For example, my friend owns 2 restaurants. He plays music in the background to create atmosphere. He pays ASCAP $5000 a year for the right to play music from the ASCAP catalog in his restaurants.
That money goes into their 1 Billion dollar Pool and 900 Million of that goes back to songwriters in the form of royalties.
This has nothing to do with our context. We all write “PRODUCTION MUSIC” where it’s end purpose is to be on corporate videos, tv spots, web videos, films, indie films, animations, on hold messages, radio spots, tv shows…etc. The main context of where AJ writers lose performance royalties is in the context of TV shows where cue sheets are required to be filed with PRO’s. That is where the money is, and is appearantly being left on the table. The average YOUTUBE media maker need not worry about extra royalty payments if they license a $19 track here. @Vision Studios
How do you know FOX is going to air with your music? Did FOX pay the $308 per track? If so, you probably made out OK if the tracks are going to be used in the context of “background cues” on 1 episode. However, if the music is going to be a theme track used on every episode, you are getting a raw deal. And also Vision Studios…yes you do have a great idea of separating out the canned 4 chord corporate looped music from other tracks that are more suited for higher end spots or TV programming. If this trend of major networks shopping here continues, AJ really needs to be ready to react in a manner that is favorable to writers so we do not get a raw deal for TV broadcast usage. A simple policy change would be this: Just state in the broadcast licenses that “if you intend to use the track on Television programs, you must enter the writers name and IPI number at their PRO on cue sheets.” From my perspective, this is where the “money being left on the table issue” comes into play. Aside from that, it really disgusts me that major networks would even consider NOT giving credit to writers, even if they buy music on a NO PRO registered Royalty Free web site.

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AJ tunes have already been used on TV shows and commercials played on TV. You are behind the times. Both of those uses should have paid backend money from a PRO. I’m not familiar with PRS, but in the U.S., there is absolutely nothing keeping AJ from allowing PRO registered music. No reason to leave money on the composer’s table, when it won’t cost ANYONE any extra money.

Have to agree with BarBeeCues. I hear AJ music on TV EVERY day. It is being used extensively. There is no magical difference between the music here and in so called exclusive libraries. These things change. Spend 10 minutes over at Extreme music and there is SO MUCH awful music it’s quite disturbing. Of course, some very professional music too. Just like here.

There’s no such thing as awful music. Just different music.

And does anyone know how much say, Sky Television pay per minute (peak time) btw? HAhahahahaaa. That might come as a shock.

My hard rejected AJ track was played on BBC2 this week :wink:

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Well, that’s been discussed here earlier, TV cues normally aren’t welcome on AJ for some reason, but I guess the staff knows their target audience better than we do.

I am sure you are right.

I would disagree, but that’s a personal opinion. :smile:

Maybe $50-60? But how often do you get more than 5-10 seconds of air time?

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Not sure what your ears are hearing prestahopthemes, but I respectfully disagree on both fronts. I do NOT hear AJ music on TV every day. I see my invoices and am keen to observe who actually is licensing the tracks. I see the videos ADREV links me to, to see how the music is being used, and finally extreme’s catalog is probably the best curated catalog on the market. The quality stands out to my ears right away. AJ music does get to TV occasionally…probably most likely on more low budget spots where oops “We don’t have any money for music”. These folks should pay $308 for that type of usage which is pretty close to the market “needle drop” rate. The problem is that the $308 rate sold here is for Worldwide commercials/ Major Motion Picture usage…way too low…It needs to be $1200. While people won’t buy it, it certainly has a psychological effect and promotes more respect for higher quality tracks. Local to regional spots should license for $308.
It would be nice if all prices for all types of licenses were visible to clients. Yes, I know $19 is the “lure” and part of the marketing and part of the “high volume” plan, but the result is still a cookie cutter, “perceived cheapness” appearance in the clients eyes. We’re not telling clients to dig deeper and buy the more expensive licenses at AJ, we’re still telling them to just buy the $19 license. I don’t know what everyone else’s trend is but it seems like 49 out of 50 licenses sold are for $19…and we all get the occasional higher license, but it’s not enough to make an impact. We’re still a 19 dollar centric site. Back to TV Royalties…What people have to understand is that a writers name properly credited on a cue sheet is huge long term and here is why: When you get credit on the cue sheet, your credit sticks for life, in perpetuity. No one ever knows how long a show will air, or where it will air. Let’s us use a silly reality show as an example. The show gets produced…15 episodes for example, it goes on air once a week for 15 weeks in a prime time slot 7 to 10 PM. Great! You are credited as writer and you make your PRO royalties for those airings…But here is where things really get interesting. Let’s now say the show becomes popular, and there is worldwide interest in it. The next thing you know, that silly reality show is being exported everywhere in the world. Brazil is running it, Australia, Italy, Germany, Japan, etc…well guess what happens?..those networks in those countries start to send royalties too because your music is part of the production…It does not end there either. Now lets say BRAVO network (For example) has nothing to show on their network. What do they do 2 years later? They reach into their vault and pull out old shows and stick them on the air, just to fill in space. So the show called “Catching fish with Bob In Iceland” is running again at 10 AM in the morning because the the network has nothing else to put on…and guess what…royalties flow to the writers for their cues used on the show yet again. This is why AJ needs a cue sheet policy. No one should be deprived of those royalties for music used on TV shows.

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Sky TV is about £10 if I remember correctly. The BBC is easily top at around £90 per minute peak time. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

In terms of timings, just this once I’ll look at it. My last 5 Tunesat entries are showing 21 and 20 seconds on a German TV News Chanel and then repeated later for exactly the same timings and a programme on ITV 1 peak time for about 48 seconds. But I agree, a lot of the time it can be a mishmash of around anything from 5 seconds to 3 minutes.

Great Insight “SteelSound” !! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. Cheers!

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Hi

We have some sketches about restaurant.

The thing ENVATO doesn’t understand (or maybe they do!) is that the CONTENT CREATORS (most likely the people buying these products) are NOT responsible for PRO royalties.

Those fees have already been paid for UP FRONT by the BROADCASTER.

So, making up a situation for example:

“Mega Productions” buys a song from Audiojungle for a production they’re making for their show, “Biker Boys.” “Biker Boys” airs on Fox, ABC, CBS, etc.

The composer of the song will get paid royalties via ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, etc. that is technically being paid by ----> Fox, ABC, CBS, etc.

“Mega Productions” does not owe the composer anything, because they bought out the song already for that one production. BUT, the composer will still get back-end royalties from the BROADCASTERS, NOT the content creator/production company.

PRO distribution is simply a way to make sure composers get financial credit from the large pools of money that are already paid for up-front by major Broadcasters. The money is already paid out and sitting in a fund with the PRO companies - this is why at the end of the year, they have competitions to grant low-income composers gift money.

I still do not understand why AJ restricts PRO affiliation with the music. The money’s already paid - it’s just about getting your claim to it.

*DISCLAIMER: The music I put on AJ is not PRO-registered. However, I have much more music elsewhere that is registered with ASCAP and has been used on International TV. This is how I know so much about PRO, and again why I am baffled as to why Envato is so hostile to PROs.

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I must say that my sense of confusion about this issue is growing rather than diminishing the more posts I read! As far as I can make out there are two main points:

  1. It shouldn’t be an issue for AJ provided the PROs are only collecting royalties from the broadcasters (but this may not be the case in all territories?)
  2. However, at least some PROs (maybe most?) would not be happy for music registered with them also to be available on RF sites, so there’d still be a problem for authors wanting to do this regardless of what AJ allowed.

Happy to be corrected on either point though

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I’ve never heard of PROs not being happy about music on RF sites. As I understand it, they’re not happy about composers who is PRO members not registering the music they have on certain RF sites that don’t allow PRO music. Most RF libraries that I’m with allow PRO music, Audiojungle is the exception. I’m also happy to be corrected :smile:

Exactly. PROs don’t care where the music comes from, they just don’t like PRF music, for obvious reasons… AJ is an exception as you say.

Yeah there are very few that don’t allow your music to be PRO. I like the idea of micro-licensing though, and right now Audiojungle is one of the top micro-licensing sites, if not THE top site. As the landscape evolves and becomes more affordable for everyone since the entry to multimedia is getting smaller, this will inevitably lead to something great for Audiojungle/Envato!

I am not sure how the PRS, GEMA, and other PRO’s in Europe work, but everyone needs to keep in mind that at ASCAP, SESAC, and BMI …“MUSIC”… the actual digital audio file in the form of an mp3 or wave file does not get registered at a PRO. Rather a “TITLE” (of a song), basically the worded title one gives to their composition is what gets registered at a PRO and this is also the phase where ownership of the “title” and “song” are granted to composers/ songwriters and publishers.

So back to PRO’s in our context, the context of production music for media such as TV shows and TV commercials. Even if major TV networks shop here for cues on a TV show and (for example) and buy (for example) 20 “uplifting” track titles here, they can STILL put the writers name on a cue sheet like this: “Show such and such cues” writer: Bob Smith 100%, Publisher: Bob Smith Publishing (BMI) 100% and then the writer of the cue will STILL collect royalties on the back end if the paperwork (cue sheet) was filed at the PRO. Even if it is NOT REGISTERED. This can not happen here until AJ allows all of us to display our writer names and IPI numbers at our PRO’s on our profiles. Bob Smith can even be credited for the “Uplifting” title as long as the production company documents his name and IPI number properly, everything is good to go, and the production company is not responsible for any more royalties or fees to AJ or the writer.

It’s that simple. Production companies credit the writer on the cue sheet, file it, and then the royalties will be paid to writer (By the TV Network broadcasting it because they pay the PROS annual fees anyway to create those 1 Billion dollar pools of “royalty” money to be distributed back to writers when their music is “performed” on TV. It is such a simple concept and there is no need to be confused by it.

It’s all about cue sheets. The micro licensing to YOUTUBE media makers has nothing to do with any of this and that can march on as it currently is at audio jungle.

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Exactly, its the same in my european PRO. Only title and length of track is registered. No cue sheet, no royalties.

A true Royalty Free company does NOT want to be bothered with PROs. They prefer to bypass PROs and do any further direct licensing with broadcasters themselves.