We're removing Envato Credits from Market

My company is a ‘buyer’…and I am personally am opposed (strongly) to being pushed in a direction whereby the purpose is motivated almost entirely by greed. This situation is made worse when it appears that the company is hoping the buying (and selling) public won’t notice!

If Envato can explain why I have to pay a handling fee to use a payment system that requires no effort on their part?

I know of no company that has successfully charged a premium of approximately 5 to 25% or more simply by the customer simply deciding to pay…and has stayed in business!! There are laws against this type of practice…it’s called the law of competition!

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I agree with this…particularly where ‘bluewing’ references “Listen to your customers, how hard is that to understand. It’s like you have forgotten those who have made you successful.”

LISTEN ENVATO!

Trust me it will be cheaper in the long run!

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I run my own site where I sell sound packs directly. Yeah, PayPal or whatever charge me as the seller a transaction fee. But I’d never think to pass the cost along to my customers directly as an additional fee at checkout. I consider the cost of doing business before I price my products. Kind of like most other businesses that sell goods.

I don’t see anyone opposing the argument in the thread anyway but I’ll go ahead and stomp out the only possible rebuttal I can conceive… ADP.

Yeah I could lower the cost of my sounds by $1 in an attempt to make the price more fair, but it still doesn’t change how negatively people perceive extra fees. Or the accounting nightmare that the lack of a credit system will create for some.

Where is the good here? I’m trying to be fair and consider the possible reasoning behind this but I can’t come up with anything. I would love to hear a counter argument.

If it is greed, it’s a short sited attempt to make gains. I’ve also not really had this impression from Envato. They are a business and any business goal is to generate revenue but this is a weird move. It’s silly.

The lack of response is concerning too at this point. The sudden announcement leads me to believe in part that it was done to prevent customers from quickly stocking up on credits.

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I am total agreement…everyone here is (I believe) in business and no one begrudges the fundamental principle of generating profit, however consumers (or suppliers for that matter) are (and should be) very sensitive to perceived attempts to ‘double dip’.

We’re simply not that stupid and it is a grave error to try to hide the action. It reeks of total disregard for the suppliers and customers.

I am under no illusion that this will be an inconvenience for us (to look for alternative supplies) but I do not believe that we will be alone in taking this action.

Finally, I am disappointed, as I have generally found Envato to be good value and certainly home to some amazing talent when it comes to content creators!

Please listen Envato.

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I have been a member of the Envato (Audio Jungle) ecosystem for six years and during this time I have seen many changes for the benefit for all authors. This, in my opinion, has been a brilliant ride and have been positive for the future of this marketplace. Author commission fee schedule is great, introduction of a license tier superb and ADP is the icing on the cake. What I cannot fathom out is the removal of the credit system and the benefits to buyers and organisations and their respective internal accounting and purchasing and adding a $2 handling fee which is then passed onto the customer at the checkout. I was made aware of this when sales for this week suddenly stopped and now we sit and wait for the luck of a purchase. Come on Envato start listening to customers who have already posted their dissatisfaction within the forum already. Will Elements be the final game changer?

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The response here on the forums about the change to credits says we could have done a better job with our communications when we announced the change. So I wanted to open by just acknowledging this and apologizing. We’ve aimed to gather responses to the most common questions below.

When making a change like the removal of our credit system, we think very carefully about the potential impacts to customers. Credits have been on Envato Market since day zero and are a mainstay for a portion of our customerbase. That said, a lot has changed since 2006.

In those years, we’ve introduced a cross marketplace shopping cart, regular sales and discounts, a “Buy Now” system that is now the predominant way to purchase, a subscription service for heavy volume users, lowered handling fees on purchases under $10 and their removal on larger spends, and numerous other changes. Alongside these changes have, of course, been the continued growth of customers and sales.

Credits are still used today, and this change does mean some customers are going to have a frustrating experience, and we apologize for that. When operating a marketplace with over two million customers, it’s difficult to make product changes that don’t have some negative ramifications for some customers. This is one of the reasons we only approach such changes with a lot of caution and consideration.

In this instance, our experience and data suggests that this change will be overall a positive for Envato Market. Its removal in the codebase will greatly simplify our ability to move the product forward, and we believe will encourage the ongoing use of other purchase systems - in particular, customers favoriting items or adding to cart, and the general take-up of sales and promotions.

With all that out of the way, on to the questions!

You can still make purchases on Envato Market without a credit card, through PayPal and Skill (which was previously only an option for buying credits).

Unfortunately, we can no longer justify the administrative and technical complexity associated with managing a credits system given the clear preference customers have shown for Buy Now (as demonstrated by the strong decline we’ve observed in the use of credits over the last few years) and the use of our shopping cart to buy bundles of items at once.

The Buy Now option already has these fees and customers now choose the Buy Now option for the vast majority of purchases.

For that majority of customers (those already using the Buy Now system), there will be no change to conversion or sales or experience. For the minority (those using credits), we anticipate an increase in basket size as it becomes more economical to purchase items together. Our experience suggests that overall we’ll see no negative impact on conversion and sales for authors, and in time we can further build on incentives to help customers get more value by finding more items that go together.

As mentioned above, we don’t believe this change will lead to a drop in sales or conversion. The number of customers using the Buy Now option (that includes handling fees) has substantially increased over time, and now accounts for the vast majority of our purchases. Customers choosing to use credits instead of the Buy Now option continues to decline.

Additionally use of the Buy Now option is associated with greater spend and larger basket sizes.

We understand that removing credits will affect how a small number of customers transact with Envato. This isn’t ideal, but we can’t retain every feature. On balance, we believe these changes will be better for most buyers by simplifying the purchase flow. Customers can still group their purchases together using the shopping cart.

Authors can still use their earnings to purchase items, and we have no plans to disable it.

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What happened to «the customer is always right»? I understand you need to look at the big data, but still there are loyal customers who now will suffer from this, minority or majority, it sends a bad signal. Customers who complain are usually minorities as well, but it´s wise to listen to them.

You are now removing, to use your own words «a sense of freedom» from the customers. Not cool, IMHO. There are many other creative subtle ways to gain revenue for a company, and this is not one of them.

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I still dont understand how buy now and cart is different.

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You’ll pay $2 fee for each payments via “Buy Now”. But, if you add a few items to the Cart, you’ll pay $2 again for only one time.

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Hi cyzer, I think this can help: https://help.market.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/203269700-How-do-I-purchase-an-item- (the Add to Cart or Buy Now section)

Also, as a personal side note, shopping carts are exposed to what is called “shopping cart abandonment”, so I assume this could be some of the reasons.

Hi thanks for the reply is it possible to know exactly how much in % is the number of Envato credits users?

You did this change to encourage and push Envato Elements? But most of the products are not there, why not just add a monthly subscription option for each marketplace?

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I hope you will be right and customers will not mind this change.

The argument “people did pay the $2 surcharge in the past” does not really count here though.

It is one thing if I come to a marketplace, see a price of an item and then at checkout I decide to pay the surcharge because it is more convenient for me, but I would have the option to basically only pay the price I agreed to.
It is another thing if I find at checkout 3 options, first costs $2, second one costs $2, third one costs $2. Now I can pick. When there is no option to buy the item at the advertised price, this is nothing else than misleading the customer. And this does annoy the customer. And this might lead to the decision to not buy at a marketplace that does shady, not serious practices like advertising lower prices than the items can actually be bought for.

It is not about people not willing to spend the $2. It is about people feeling being tricked by a shady business and losing trust immediately at the point of checkout.

Even those who would have opted for the surcharge option anyway.

We’ll see how it goes.

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Also, nowhere on the item page this surcharge is mentioned. Include it in the price box, like you do with VAT:

Price is in US dollars. Price displayed excludes VAT and $2 surchage.

Else this is like going to a supermarket, picking the groceries you need and then at checkout you are told that your basket does actually cost more than you were told. Not even in the small print.

This will p*ss people off. At least be honest and more open about the surcharge.

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Seems like Envato are channeling things towards Elements in a big way…making using the standard marketplace less attractive. If they get this wrong and revenues for Authors drop considerably…this could cause an exodus of talent and custom. Fingers crossed they know what they are doing and that the predictions work out…but it is worrying to see so much negative feedback.

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You are assuming those customers will still continue to have an experience with Envato Market. Who wants to have a frustrating experience when there are other options that are not frustrating?

Let me understand this. You are going to give the minority a “frustrating experience,” and their response will be to increase their basket size? Very interesting logic. I would not have looked at it that way.

I have these same concerns as a seller, and this is my impression as a buyer.

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It’s a bit like concert ticketing…I always feel ripped off when they add their massive ‘admin’ fees at the end. It’s just blatant profiteering and it has put me off using those companies whenever I can. Oh well…doesn’t seem like Envato are changing their mind anytime soon on this…

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A last-minute $2 surcharge seems like it would increase the possibility of cart abandonment, not decrease it. Thus, the logic of this move is still unclear.

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I think there are two solutions to this:

  1. Envato increases all prices via Fixed Author fee by $2 so pricing remains upfront and visible to buyers or
  2. Authors have a banner that highlights the $2 surcharge at point of sale on Profile pages and item descriptions

Either way this eliminates a misleading purchase price to buyers.

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All bad decisions for the authors on Market they were made because of the forcing Elements. Authors complains about the bad sale, fee etc. The solution is simple do not put items on Elements and only then will some things change on the Market. When the market has collapsed for making such decisions ask yourself how much your earnings will be only from the Elements.

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Open your statements and check. For me it depends from month month, it can be 5% of total monthly sales or max 27% from my calculations. I see a possible 10% max drop in sales until everyone will get accustomed to it. Since it’s a basic online practice, I doubt this will affect sales more than that. Who wants to buy will buy, who doesn’t, won’t.