Update to Elements Author Agreement and Market Author Terms

@BenLeong! Thx for the straight forward and concrete answer. It’s helpful indeed. One last thing that hasn’t been mentioned:

Do you also plan to disclose the author monetary shares both for 3rd party distribution and AI feed?

Thx!

yes, but without the perpetuity licensing and with the ability to Opt-out.

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@BenLeong Thank you for clarification. Speaking of letting us know, one last question.

If a deal has been struck with a third party, regardless of who it is, will we be notified of who they are and what the terms are for the agreement with that individual party?

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I have pulled out every high value project from Videohive.
I can’t find a reason why authors with gorgeous after effects projects priced $50+ are OK distributing them on subscription sites but I might be missing something.

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yes, you are missing the icing on the cake :joy:
perpetual licensing, unlike recurring subscription payment,
means you are paid only once for an indefinite use,
$0.0001 instead of $69 for your videohive project.

I personally don’t believe (or foolishly hope) Envato will sell itself that low,
but technically, when you agree to the new terms,
you accept that as a possibility.
(However, I have a feeling they might’ve cut a “special” deal with Top Envato Market authors)

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I agree that this is a definitive change. For example I’ve been in touch with support a couple of times regarding taxes and sale reversals. The outcome was always that it’s very unfortunate but both affect me as the author. The marketplace is only the intermediary.
With the new terms regarding third parties Envato seems to position itself as a distributor, like a record label or publisher but without a clear and detailed compensation Strategy. (E.g
60/40 % split)

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Envato does not own any music assets whatsoever. We, the authors, own these assets that we uploaded to our personal stores to transact directly with buyers on the audio jungle market. I just had a phone meeting with a new company that will be paying 80% to music authors. Their platform will target the personal use, small business user, and medium business users. The subscription fees will be $4.99 then $14.99 a month depending on business size. But here is the thing: 80% of the downloads will be paid to the authors. So clearly, everyone needs to open their eyes and migrate away from these older platforms that are now starting to use words like “Our Library”, and “AI Ingestion to AI Learning models” and “We don’t know what we can pay you” and “We want to renumerate you ethically, and responsibly but we don’t know what we can pay you, but opt in anyway”

The writing is on the wall and has been on the wall.

Do you folks rememebr when MYSPACE once dominated everyone’s attention only to just get smashed into irrelevant dust in seemingly just 3 to 6 months.

This can very easily happen here, and should…considering the terms being offered.

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It’s a fact, Just spoke to a top exec (I will not name who) at Shutterstock and I asked point blank: Who has ingested music into AI Learning models?

And the answer was factually clear: NVIDIA, META/ FACEBOOK, and OPEN AI…And they have intentions to “make deals” with many many more Big Tech companies. So clearly Google will be on the list, then Tik Tok.

He stated that generative AI Music is not selling on Shutterstock.

Now why does FACEBOOK want to ingest and learn everyone’s tunes? The answer seems really simple to me, but I could be wrong and I would love to hear what others think: They want their “non creative” customers to be able to make their own ads very quickly (With photos, music, videos, etc…)
They also want tracks for “reels” so anyone can make a silly, fun video about anyhthing at any time and have access to music to do that, and photos, graphics, videos, etc. etc…And they want them to have the tools so they can do that work very fast with absolute ease.

Shutterstock will pay “dataset ingestion” royalties to artist contributors every month.

Where is all this going to go? I have no idea. For now, human authored music is still selling way way better than AI generated music, but as these datasets gobble up more and more music to learn from, the quality of the AI generated music should improve, but it looks like it may take a few years.

The bottom line is that it really is not in a music producers interests to “TEACH AI LEARNING MODELS” how to replace you one day. You will be replaced, eventually…that is for sure, but you need to decide how quickly you want to be replaced.

Facebook is the king at capitalizing on “lawless” moments of data gathering to use to their benefit.

The solution to “Can’t beat em, may as well join em” is owning stock in NVIDIA, FACEBOOK, META, MICROSOFT, GOOGLE. They are coming after your intellectual property with a mean thirst and they are hungrier than Lions. They WANT YOUR MUSIC and now and for cheap. And Envato is trying to find ways to sell it to them, even though they own none of it.

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@johnnybd

yes, you are missing the icing on the cake :joy:
perpetual licensing, unlike recurring subscription payment,
means you are paid only once for an indefinite use,
$0.0001 instead of $69 for your videohive project.
I personally don’t believe (or foolishly hope) Envato will sell itself that low,
but technically, when you agree to the new terms,
you accept that as a possibility.
(However, I have a feeling they might’ve cut a “special” deal with Top Envato Market authors)

Unfortunately this could be a possibility. Without any details regarding any deals that have been discussed, this is a possibility for sure. They could easily sell our materials off for a one time super low price and make all the money in the backend off it for themselves (and the third party). Probably why a lot of the terms are vague or blanket terms, so they have wiggle room to work it as they see fit.

Here’s the thing, this entire set of terms is here to benefit Envato, not really the authors. I have yet to be shown an example of how this deal would help authors and frankly, I don’t think Envato will do so to be honest.

As you said, I hope Envato won’t be so low to undercut everyone, but trust is pretty low at the moment so I’m not sure where I stand on it.

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Just finished deleting all MY stuff. Not Envato’s. Never Envato’s. MINE :smiley:

Goodbye and good luck to the rest of the creator community who were here since 2010 when I first joined AudioJungle.

And to the Envato suits, “Bobbins” :poop:

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Ok, my whole portfolio is deleted. The reason is that Envato isn’t clear on many aspects but also because they divided authors in two categories with their last email. I’m fortunate enough to have build a career in music outside stock markets and don’t depend financially from them. I’m thankful for the platform to help me build a mindset on this type of business many years ago and learned that there are many things that a composer/music producer can do. I’m not thankful for how things moved throughout the years (My first account was from 2014, this is my second one).

I hope things in the future will work in a way both market and authors have benefits. At the moment this looks very cloudy. Good luck to all of you.

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It’s June 1, remember ENVATO music sellers these are now part of the terms of the new agreement and everyone should copy and paste all comments Envato made in this thread to store a copy on your computer for your own protections. Your Intellectual Property, your music files, your sound recordings are owned by YOU, and not Envato:

"From the May 23, 2023 Email
Team Envato authors@t.elements.envato.com

5/23/2023 7:33 AM

Important Update for Our Valued Audio Community

we want to be transparent about our current plans in the audio space.

We would like to assure you that beyond internal-use to improve the quality of our product offering (for example, search and discovery enhancements using AI-powered music tagging), we have no immediate plans to use your audio items in third party licensing/distribution arrangements including/or as part of Generative AI services .

You will have the opportunity to opt out of use of your audio items in third party licensing arrangements such as a reseller and/or building AI solutions to generate music or other audio.

If we plan to start using audio items for these types of arrangements (including reseller arrangements or generative AI), we will provide you with reasonable notice that we intend to commence such use, and also provide you with the opportunity to opt-out of being included as part of these types of arrangements going forward. This will be a one-off notice and opt-out that will be provided before initial use of audio items in third party licensing arrangements commences. To avoid doubt, should you elect to opt-out, this will not affect your ability to continue to sell your items on Envato’s sites as normal.

As the audio landscape continues to evolve and the intersection of AI and music licensing matures, we are closely observing the advancements in this space to evaluate viable opportunities. We do not want to rule out the possibility of Envato including audio items in third party licensing arrangements in the future. That being said, we want to again emphasize that there are no immediate or upcoming plans to use your audio items in any third party licensing/distribution arrangements, including/or as part of Generative AI services."

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It’s May 31st. I’m an AudioJungle Author, so audio assets. I have yet to see an opt-out option.
My understanding is that tomorrow, June 1st, Envato terms of service make everything I have on the site a perpetual license.

If they provide an opt out at a later date (before they make an agreement for use with a third party), as I understand it, they will STILL have that perpetual use agreement in place from June 1st - that’s the nature of perpetual use agreements.

Unless I’ve just failed to find where the opt-out button is? I’d much appreciate if someone could direct me to it. If they’re only bringing the opt-out at a later date, AFTER we’ve already agreed to their perpetual terms of use, then I don’t really see how that makes sense.

I would also like to point out that what I’ve seen so far is they’re claiming the current interest is for metadata tagging of assets “to make searching more effective”. That’s all well and good, but having a large number of assets tagged and defined in detail and an essential first step to training generative AI. In the past, this was a huge, labor intensive task done manually. They then got smart about it and used Captcha to train the algorithms (did you think that was to test if you’re human? When it says “select 3 bikes”, what it really is is “the algorithm thinks there are 3 bikes, and you’re testing how good its confidence level should be” - humans on a massive scale were providing weighting data for AI).

But you need tags for all of that first. Ingesting all of our content to improve keywords and searching is the beginning part of training a generative AI. So if we’re involved in that, we ARE being used to help train an AI.

Lastly, there currently is no generative AI program for audio assets (or code, though people have gotten ChatGPT to create some code, it’s rough). Their lack of immediate plans means little when it’s not something currently available. Meanwhile, in the areas where generative AI already exists, they do not offer opt-out. I’d bet generative audio is coming soon (within a year), and suddenly opt-out is going to change to the same policy as it is with the areas where generative AI currently exists. Just my prediction.

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There is no further reason to stay.
It was already a theft before…
I mean, if I don’t want to sell my stuff exclusively, I see a fee falling on me, at the limit of reason. We’re talking about more than half. Moneylenders in certain countries of the world go to jail.

For what?

Have some kind of sales opportunity? Granted and NOT GRANTED, that your products are accepted…
How much should I sell my products for then?
Raising prices by 55%?
And what is the probability that someone will buy a product at such a false price?
How many sales? 1? 5? 10?

Ok…ok…then you can decide to become anexclusive author” in this place.

Wow…
Let’s say that excluding other fees (those customers pay for your stuff), dear Envato friends get over 20% of the profit.
Then of course, maybe your product will become a world standard and you’ll sell a zillion copies for cheap: in that case your dear friends will be satisfied with less. But how dear…

And do you know what happens from tomorrow?
That if you don’t remove your products from this sick market, one day they may decide to resell it to third parties at the price that suits them best. And maybe (very maybe), you’ll see yourself credited with some coins: certainly not YOUR price.

They can feed it to an AI and Puf!! New products to be created, drawn from your own and, obviously… Envato products. Not yours.

You know what?
YOU are the Value of this place.
Bring to YOU the profit of YOUR hard works, don’t let a company, make it even bigger on YOUR products.

There are thousands…hundreds of thousands of Developers who can create YOUR Ecommerce, if you can’t do it yourself.
It is not an unaffordable expense.
It’s not a huge effort to do it.
But the benefits will be YOURS and YOURS alone.
You decide what to sell and when to sell, without a censorship of approval…which is of dubious integrity.

I’ll close it here: “One day, you will have nothing and you will be happy for it…”
Good Luck Guys :heart:

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I’ve never had an issue with their exclusive vs. nonexclusive design. Non-exclusive gives you the freedom to put your material on other marketplaces, thereby dramatically increasing your reach. It’s also inherently less valuable on any individual market place.

With the exclusive option, the more you sell, the better your percentage is - up to 70%! Frankly, that’s pretty incredible, and a pretty good deal.

Years ago, I felt Envato were really a pretty ethical company, approaching their Authors respectfully and doing things the “right” way, as far as the open market/royalty free sector was concerned.

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You know that there are other markets that take 20% right?
However, you are perfectly free to stay here!
:smile:
Enjoy! :slightly_smiling_face: :+1:

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how many years does it take to reach the kind of status that u mention so that u enjoy 70% of the sale price? how much successful do u have to be to be able to do so? it takes years and years before u reach such a very high paw and status so that u ultimately get this 70% that u referred to …

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What places only take 20%? I haven’t heard of such places, actually.

So why did you ever even make an account here? For over 10 years as an exclusive author to boot!

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Let’s see if I can clear up your doubts.

For starters, I haven’t sold exclusively on codecanyon since 2015.
I haven’t sold anything on that marketplace for years, I quickly realized how unprofitable it was for an author.

Then when I read this post on the forum, and I made some changes on my profile and just out of curiosity, I changed my agreement.

You want to laugh?
Once you’ve changed, even if it’s just to see the difference in fees yourself, you can’t change again without having to wait a month.
Realize that if I sell something and decide NOT TO SELL EXCLUSIVELY, I still have to wait to change status. Ergo… if I sell something, the fees gobble them up anyway.

If you want to sell your products (in my case code), there are dozens of markets where you can do it, and the prices dear friend are a little different.
Do a google search…it will surprise you.
I quote 1.

Let me be clear. I have my shop, I don’t need to advertise on other portals.
But the reality is out there.

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I really like the reverse approach, like Shopify. They have no commission at the start.

They are, hey, we have a great product, a large audience, and we are confident in our quality. If you are a beginner - try it yourself it is not difficult. If you are a pro - you have a great platform. We take your money only after we bring you real value.

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