To print text or design element in golden reflective ink


#1

Hi everyone,
I wanted to know how do you design something in Photoshop or what color do you give it if you want it to be printed in golden ink.
Thanks :slight_smile:


#2

I know it would be printed in metallic ink but how do you specify the layer to be printed in gold to the press?


#3

With this sort of job it is often best to speak to a printer and they will tell you how they need the file, but it may be different from printer to printer! hope that helps


#4

-Since it’s at PS, whatever is going to be gold has to be in a separate layer.

-You can color it with any color out of C-M-Y-K you want.

Do not worry about your rest of your layout being cmyk, b/c you’ll make sure that not only your ‘gold’ layer is going to be named accordingly but you will also extra point it out to the printer when you’ll deliver your project for print. They’ll take it from there.

If you were working in ID or IL and not PS, you could also color it with any pantone and label it etc accordingly and a separate layer wouldn’t be necessary. Just the notice to the printer that the 5th pantone color is going to be printed gold.


IF your printer doesn’t edit and prepare the files and you have to give the files totally prepared, you:

-have your file with the gold separate layer.
-place your bleeds and crop marks and, all set and done.
-now dublicate your PS file, from the first delete the gold layer and keep the cmyk, from the second the other way around, delete your cmyk layer and keep the gold one.
So you give them two separate files for the cmyk and the gold part, both of them with the elements in the right place with crop marks etc. in both.

SOS:
*When you print metallic gold/silver as in FOIL BLOCKING (reflective/mirror’ color) it gets overpinted on top of the cmyk inks, (it’s a separate kind of printing, they use a heated die or block in a press, and gold leaf, it’s not offset printing like cmyk or a pantone) so you don’t have to worry about overlaps and mix of the cmyk colors with the metallic one.

*BUT If by ‘metallic’ you just mean a pantone gold/silver metallic color, you would have to make sure that in the cmyk separate file it leaves a hole wherever the gold extra color is going to fall. Because as any other pantone, it’s still offset printing, it doesn’t get overprinted and needs to be printed on the clean white part of the paper, otherwise it will mix with the cmyk inks if there is an overlap/overprint.


Also, if it’s foil blocking gold, your color can’t be anything else than full 100% of color.

If it’s a pantone color, technically there are no restrictions about its raster, BUT imho, the result doesn’t look good when it comes to metallic and not mate colors (to use it at anything less than 100% I mean. If you do, you simply lose its metallic look).

Hope that was more help that confusing, wish I could describe it to you in my native language :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile:


#5

@DarkstarDesigns
Yeah, thanks a lot man:) I will explain the structure of the file to them.

@aRtlessX
Hey, No problem about the language and I would really like to thank you for all the details that you have explained. Very helpful indeed. You have understood my question quite well. I think I will be using Illustrator instead. I basically have to design a certificate with a border and I will use a vector like ‘27 Lines Oscillating Frame’ on graphicriver. That fine detailed border has to be in golden reflective color (or metallic ink) so it shines when its printed.

If I understand correctly, you have said that I can make two copies of the file if I work in photoshop. One will be with the golden border only and the other with text. Same alignment.

And yes,

SOS : When you print metallic gold/silver as in *FOIL BLOCKING (reflective/mirror’ color) it gets overpinted on top of the cmyk inks, (it’s a separate kind of printing, they use a heated die or block in a press, and gold leaf, it’s not offset printing like cmyk or a pantone) so you don’t have to worry about overlaps and mix of the cmyk colors with the metallic one.

I will be printing in gold metallic ink for the shine effect. But as the design will be very detailed with all the lines, will it print properly with foil blocking?

Will it work if I just design a certificate in either PS or IL with any pantone 100% color for the border, maintain layers and just give it to the press and tell them which part is to be printed in golden ink?


#6
That fine detailed border has to be in golden reflective color (or metallic ink) so it shines when its printed.
Hmm, that's a very detailed vector indeed with thin lines connected. The "hmm" gets explained in the following part...
I will be printing in gold metallic ink for the shine effect. But as the design will be very detailed with all the lines, will it print properly with foil blocking?

Starting on the facts that,

  • Foil blocking is not ink, just a leaf of gold that gets pressed and the part that is used in the design gets stuck on top of the paper.
  • A pantone metallic color is ink and works as any other cmyk color ink…

…Personally I wouldn’t go with foil blocking if I had the choice (meaning if my client wasn’t specifically asking for that and only that) when it comes to thin and/or very small elements.

The reason is that, when it comes to thin lines or very small letters, the result with foil blocking is not all that good. Not a disaster but certainly far from perfect. The problem is basically at the edges, not in the main body of the element. The edges are not well defined and when you have such a thin element, well it’s basically all edges, isn’t it. I think the problem results when that leaf of gold gets lifted (so that the used part will remain on paper) and it takes some of the edges with it somehow, maybe it’s also a matter of equal pressure everywhere, not sure about that.

Ofcourse everything depents also on the printer, some know how to make the best of it. But personally I’ve never seen it perfect with thin elements, maybe it’s our printers here that are a disaster haha.

So based on my experience I’d go with a pantone metallic gold ink for this one. Not as shiny as foil blocking which gives you the result of a reflective mirror, but it’s still metallic and shining enough to make a difference.

If you never happened to see first hand the difference between foil blocking gold and a pantone metallic gold, just ask your printer to show you samples from printed jobs of both and see in action what’s good enough for you as a result. That will also give you the chance to see his printing quality.

If I understand correctly, you have said that I can make two copies of the file if I work in photoshop. One will be with the golden border only and the other with text. Same alignment.
Correct, but that's ONLY needed if your printer doesn't do that preparation and it's you that has to give them already separate files. Normally, this shouldn't be on you and it would be enough giving them one file of the whole design, just with a separate layer in it for the gold element.
Will it work if I just design a certificate in either PS or IL with any pantone 100% color for the border, maintain layers and just give it to the press and tell them which part is to be printed in golden ink?

Yep, that would definitely work, they know what needs to be done from there for the right separations and the techicalities of it. I don’t know if it’s any different abroad, but here 99% the prepress preparation is not really the designer’s work, you give them the file (rightly done ofcourse) and they do whatever technical editing needs to be done before it goes for the actual printing.

Just remember that if it’s in PS you’ll have to color it with one of the 4 basic cmyk colors again (at 100%), b/c you can’t have one PS file (layered or not) and have both cmyk and pantone in it. So you color it either C/M/Y/K at 100% and keep it on a separate layer. (no such problem in IL with that, you can have both pantone and cmyk withing the same file in IL).

Also, in the case that you don’t use all 4 cmyk colors in the rest of the layout, you ofcourse choose to color it with what is not being used by the rest of the design. Say the rest of your elements in your design are only using Cyan-Yellow-Black and Magenta is not being used at all. You color your border with magenta and just point to the printer that “Magenta=gold printing”. In this case you don’t even have to keep your file layered. The printer will just separate a regular cmyk file and use the channel you pointed out to them for the gold printing.


#7

Hey thanks man. You have excellent command over your stuff.
Yeah, you have confirmed my fears about foil blocking. I also saw an example of it around my house. It was a book cover with a logo in foil blocking and I couldn’t read the letters in it. They were in an old medieval type font that you see on scrolls. All letters were mixed up and looked like golden dots lol.

Also, in the case that you don’t use all 4 cmyk colors in the rest of the layout, you ofcourse choose to color it with what is not being used by the rest of the design. Say the rest of your elements in your design are only using Cyan-Yellow-Black and Magenta is not being used at all. You color your border with magenta and just point to the printer that “Magenta=gold printing”. In this case you don’t even have to keep your file layered. The printer will just separate a regular cmyk file and use the channel you pointed out to them for the gold printing.

I wish that was the case with my certificate :frowning: But there will be a full color logo on it so I think it will be in CMYK.

Those are some wonderful insights that you shared about CMYK printing. I’ve read your post 3 times now hehe and have reached the following conclusions.

If I use PS:
-I’m going to use Pantone Metallic Gold color (think it’s Pantone 871 and 872 as well).
Question here:
I know it will not shine a lot like foil, but will 871/872 or 873 look convincing enough to mimic the gold effect when printed on art card? (it’s going to be a certificate like you get in college)

If I use Illustrator:
-I don’t think you have Pantone there; so what color should I make the gold layer in?


#8
I know it will not shine a lot like foil, but will 871/872 or 873 look convincing enough to mimic the gold effect when printed on art card? (it's going to be a certificate like you get in college)
Can't help with those specific pantones color codes b/c it depents if the designer and the printer use the same pantone pallete (plus I don't remember those numbers by heart :p).

It doesn’t really matter which pantone you’ll use in your file, just put one that looks like gold to the eye and tell the printer that one is meant for gold. WHICH one he’s actuall going to use in print? When you give them your files, you ask him to show you the palette he’s using and you choose right there which one is best for you, simple as that. In my opinion it does have the desired effect, not as shiny as foil as you said but it still gives the desired effect to stand out as shiny.

Btw, you’ll only need to color your border with a pantone, if you use IL (IL does have pantone color panels, go to "Window>swatch libraries)

But you won’t need to color it with pantone if you’re going to use PS.

And as they say, a picture is worth a million words, so in order not to confuse you with much more talk (sorry, I do that LOL), hope this is more clear:

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/425/goldkd.jpg

:slight_smile:


#9

Wow you should be the forum superstar :smiley: hehe
And as for the Pantone color codes, I just did some research on google and found these values. Though in PS, they look like mud brown lol. But as you have pointed out that it doesn’t matter what color is used as long as the printer is briefed about the file, I will simply do that.
Man I don’t believe I missed the Pantone colors in IL. I was more used to Corel you know :slight_smile:

About the picture that you have attached, thank you soo much for that. No it’s not confusing at all in fact it really clears up everything. You’re the expert :slight_smile: I now have enough information to deal with the press and I have you to thank for it all.


#10

Glad I could help visualife, no biggie :slight_smile:


#11
-Since it's at PS, whatever is going to be gold has to be in a separate layer.

-You can color it with any color out of C-M-Y-K you want.

Do not worry about your rest of your layout being cmyk, b/c you’ll make sure that not only your ‘gold’ layer is going to be named accordingly but you will also extra point it out to the printer when you’ll deliver your project for print. They’ll take it from there.

If you were working in ID or IL and not PS, you could also color it with any pantone and label it etc accordingly and a separate layer wouldn’t be necessary. Just the notice to the printer that the 5th pantone color is going to be printed gold.


IF your printer doesn’t edit and prepare the files and you have to give the files totally prepared, you:

-have your file with the gold separate layer.
-place your bleeds and crop marks and, all set and done.
-now dublicate your PS file, from the first delete the gold layer and keep the cmyk, from the second the other way around, delete your cmyk layer and keep the gold one.
So you give them two separate files for the cmyk and the gold part, both of them with the elements in the right place with crop marks etc. in both.

SOS:
*When you print metallic gold/silver as in FOIL BLOCKING (reflective/mirror’ color) it gets overpinted on top of the cmyk inks, (it’s a separate kind of printing, they use a heated die or block in a press, and gold leaf, it’s not offset printing like cmyk or a pantone) so you don’t have to worry about overlaps and mix of the cmyk colors with the metallic one.

*BUT If by ‘metallic’ you just mean a pantone gold/silver metallic color, you would have to make sure that in the cmyk separate file it leaves a hole wherever the gold extra color is going to fall. Because as any other pantone, it’s still offset printing, it doesn’t get overprinted and needs to be printed on the clean white part of the paper, otherwise it will mix with the cmyk inks if there is an overlap/overprint.


Also, if it’s foil blocking gold, your color can’t be anything else than full 100% of color.

If it’s a pantone color, technically there are no restrictions about its raster, BUT imho, the result doesn’t look good when it comes to metallic and not mate colors (to use it at anything less than 100% I mean. If you do, you simply lose its metallic look).

Hope that was more help that confusing, wish I could describe it to you in my native language :stuck_out_tongue: :slight_smile:

What is your native language?


#12

Just remember that if it’s in PS you’ll have to color it with one of the 4 basic cmyk colors again (at 100%), b/c you can’t have one PS file (layered or not) and have both cmyk and pantone in it. So you color it either C/M/Y/K at 100% and keep it on a separate layer. (no such problem in IL with that, you can have both pantone and cmyk withing the same file in IL).

Also, in the case that you don’t use all 4 cmyk colors in the rest of the layout, you ofcourse choose to color it with what is not being used by the rest of the design. Say the rest of your elements in your design are only using Cyan-Yellow-Black and Magenta is not being used at all. You color your border with magenta and just point to the printer that “Magenta=gold printing”. In this case you don’t even have to keep your file layered. The printer will just separate a regular cmyk file and use the channel you pointed out to them for the gold printing.

Is it means that i can have for example a layer (not the golden layer) with C20% M60% Y80% and K20% or i cant use magenta at all in the no golden layers? (when magenta=gold printing)


#13

You can use it in both cases (have it or don’t already have it in the rest of the job). The diffrerence is, when it’s already in the rest of the job (like your example), you have to keep it on a separate layer (like the image example I posted). If you don’t already use it at all, you could even flatten your file. That’s the only difference (important though).

edit: just saw the first question: it’s Greek.


#14
You can use it in both cases (have it or don't already have it in the rest of the job). The diffrerence is, when it's already in the rest of the job (like your example), you have to keep it on a separate layer (like the image example I posted). If you don't already use it at all, you could even flatten your file. That's the only difference (important though).

edit: just saw the first question: it’s Greek.

Thank you so much, i understand now :slight_smile:

My native language is spanish so my english is not very good xD


#15
Metallic look: C44 M47 Y78 K20
Yellow look: C20 M30 Y100 K1

If you are looking for a truly original Golden color, use gradients.

Regards,

Chris :wink: