PhotoDune: Update & Next Steps

Envato Announcements
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Ok… I’m not a lawyer, but I did study law at college, so I like to think I’ve got a slightly better grasp on the law than the average guy on the street. And one thing I’ve learned over the years is that lawyers are more than happy to tell you that you might have a case… although, they’re slightly less happy to take that case on a no win, no fee, basis. Unless they’re very confident that they will win. I’m curious what your friend would think of the situation if you did decide to pursue legal action, and you’d only pay him if you won? Has he actually read all of the terms and conditions of the site?

The thing is, and I’m sorry to break it to you, but your friend is wrong. If you’d actually hired him and he’d spent a bit of time looking into it, then he’d know that. Allow me to explain…

A) Envato have the right to remove your files at any point and for any reason. That’s stated in the terms and conditions of the site. That’s it. That’s all anybody needs to know. There’s no need for a B or a C or anything else… but I’ll give you those on the house.

B) Like a house, or a shop, or a pub… Envato is essentially private property, and they have the right to ask you to leave at any time. Like a shop, you have an explicit invitation to enter, but that invitation can be revoked at any time, and for almost any reason. But in this instance, your invitation to enter isn’t being revoked, they’re just deciding not to sell your goods in their shop. They’re allowed to do that, as it’s stated in the terms and conditions.

C) There is no contract. I mean, there kind of is, as there are a set of terms and conditions that you agree to be bound to when selling on the site, but it’s not like you printed off some document, signed it, had it countersigned and then sent it back to Envato. There are just the terms and conditions of the site, and the user agreements that you agree to abide by. One of those terms and conditions that you agreed to when selling items on the site, is that Envato could remove your items whenever they wanted and for any reason. And in doing so, they’ve not invalidated any of the other terms and conditions… the ‘contract’ is still active, and you still agree to be bound to that.

D) Whether they get rid of your files now, or at some random point in the future, doesn’t really make any difference. Going back to the analogy of private property… if I have a party and I invite you round, then I can also ask you to leave at any time. I can also state, at some point during the night, that I will be kicking you out at some indeterminate point later on in the evening. I don’t have you give you a specific time I will be kicking you out, and I don’t have to give you any pre-warning, but as a reasonably nice host… I am giving you a bit of pre-warning. If, being provided with that information, you would like to leave before I kick you out, then you are well within your rights to do that.

E) This is the big one. I mean, ‘A’ was the big one, and it was conclusive proof that there’s no case for legal action, but if anybody still needs an additional conclusive reason why there’s no case for legal action… then this is the million dollar question. And here’s the question/questions… why has the contract been terminated? How does removing your photos invalidate the contract? How does saying ‘we will remove your photos from the site’ invalidate or cancel the contract? Which part of the contract states that Envato has to sell your items, or offer your items for sale? Which part of it indicates that not selling your items terminates or breaches the contract?

Those are the questions that will be asked if it ever does go to legal action, so they’re the basics that you need to get clear.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a shame that a bunch of authors are having their items removed. I can understand why those authors wouldn’t be very happy about it. Maybe it’s not been handled in the best possible way. I’m having all my items removed, so I’m in the same boat. I just feel that some people are grasping at straws when it comes to what they can do about their files being removed.

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Hi.

I have 9,56$ in my account. How do I get that?
Thanks

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Just looked at your portfolio and am surprised you are being cut. Lots of sales, too. Guess that means I’ll be gone soon but I haven’t had an email saying so yet (or I missed it somehow). I’m not angry if I’m cut since it’s their right how they want their site to move forward. Glad I was allowed to sell there. That was a very good explanation about the contract. Made sense.

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After all this A,B,C things, you again forgot to mention “reapply” issue… What does it mean? You are all very quiet about that… And you also forgot to mention a lot of other things…
I don’t think you are average guy on the street. Neither am I. I was employed as The Air Force pilot, after that as Logistics Officer in Danish Red Cross. Many different type of contracts and agreements passed through my hands. I am not a lawyer, as well, but my so far life and job experience make me qualified enough to recognize good and bad decisions, fair and unfair behavior, legal actions and shadowy machinations.

My friend who succeeded to became lawyer is right, we have POSSIBLE case here. (You don’t read carefully.)Your fellows from PhotoDune Team should be very careful and pay every single cent to every author timely, as well as to assure that author’s copyright not to be violated. They also shouldn’t hold and sell affected contributor’s files without permission, or after permission cancellation. Otherwise, we will have SURE case. I wouldn’t probably raise lawsuit for 20$ issue, but I am ready to take any legal action to protect my copyrights. [quote=“SpaceStockFootage, post:151, topic:90127”]
B) Like a house, or a shop, or a pub… Envato is essentially private property, and they have the right to ask you to leave at any time. Like a shop, you have an explicit invitation to enter, but that invitation can be revoked at any time, and for almost any reason. But in this instance, your invitation to enter isn’t being revoked, they’re just deciding not to sell your goods in their shop. They’re allowed to do that, as it’s stated in the terms and conditions.
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Good comparison, I agree… But you again forgot to mention the other party’s rights. I also decided not to sell my goods in their shop, but they locked the door…They don’t have right to lock the door and to keep me inside by force, until they clean up the shop, have a dinner with friends, staff members, moderators, until they find the way how to pay, (if they pay), they don’t have right to keep using our files without permission…there is much more… They have rights, but they don’t have right to forget contributor’s rights.[quote=“SpaceStockFootage, post:151, topic:90127”]
D) Whether they get rid of your files now, or at some random point in the future, doesn’t really make any difference. Going back to the analogy of private property… if I have a party and I invite you round, then I can also ask you to leave at any time. I can also state, at some point during the night, that I will be kicking you out at some indeterminate point later on in the evening. I don’t have you give you a specific time I will be kicking you out, and I don’t have to give you any pre-warning, but as a reasonably nice host… I am giving you a bit of pre-warning. If, being provided with that information, you would like to leave before I kick you out, then you are well within your rights to do that.
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This is totally sick, but good comparison, again. PhotoTodune became exactly place like this. Yes, I want to go. I don’t want to have nothing with such a kind of minor, rude, arrogant people, places, business… but the gate is locked, I can’t go out…They still hold my files, I am not sure what is going to happen with them, they hold my money, I don’t know are they going to pay and when? What to do? I have to come back and to have fun on forum, until somebody let me go out? Or to knock out rude host and smash the gate? Waiting for my money, my files deleted, account closed, and I live the party…[quote=“SpaceStockFootage, post:151, topic:90127”]
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a shame that a bunch of authors are having their items removed. I can understand why those authors wouldn’t be very happy about it. Maybe it’s not been handled in the best possible way. I’m having all my items removed, so I’m in the same boat.
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Yes, it’s a shame. One thing we agree completely. It was handled in totally wrong way.
But please, don’t say you are in the same boat, because your files are removed as well. After 6 years on Envato, you have only 48 PhotoDune items, 47 sales. Evidently, photography is not in your focus of interest.
Do you remember this: “What’s your strongest suit? Video, audio, photography, animation…?”
"Definitely video and animation, specifically VFX and motion graphics. If I was just uploading photos and my own musical compositions, then I’d probably still be at Level 1 for sales!"
You make the main money on other Envato markets. You have 288 video clips on VideoHive. Just imagine they delete all of them? Then you would be on the same boat. Your 48 files are nothing, you can quickly catch up. I can understand why you are not displeased at all. [quote=“SpaceStockFootage, post:151, topic:90127”]
I just feel that some people are grasping at straws when it comes to what they can do about their files being removed.
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If you think of me, misjudgment again. I strongly want my files removed from here, but they hold them by force. I am hobby stock photographer, not professional, I don’t take the hole thing too seriously. Thanks to my previous occupations, I have income from multiple sources, more than enough for easy living. I don’t have to kiss some as**s not to be kicked out from the party. I do stock photography just for fun and pleasure. Some extra money is always welcome, of course, but this party is not making money for me, I earned hardly for coffee on my favorite destinations. But there are lot of other parties in the town, with pleasant people and proper hosts. There my modest portfolio made money for a new car. I am going to stick to them in the future.
At the end, do I have a chance to gain Amazing Forum Superstar badge before I live the party? I was very active here…

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I quite agree. PhotoDune used to be very pleasant place, but long ago… What you can find at the moment? Lot of arrogance, unfair behavior, lot of forum bots… I regret for the old days… :worried:

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This is useless information. I have sent request immediately after receiving get out e-mail, but nothing happened so far. Their answer: “Unfortunately the payout is dynamically planned and so I cannot assist with this.” " Files will not be removed until the mass remove these along with all of the other authors items." Irritating… :rage:

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Really pathetic…

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Even those who want their account closed immediately? Sorry, this is nonsense… :sunglasses:

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Take a closer view, he has only 48 files and 47 sales with PhotoDune within 6 years with Envato; he is very impressive and serious player, but on the other Envato markets, not much within PhotoDune.[quote=“jarenwicklund, post:153, topic:90127”]
That was a very good explanation about the contract. Made sense
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I must disagree. This is Moderator’s non-official and colored explanation, easy to be denied by staff in case of need; this is an attempt to gain control on “loud crowd”, to let some smoke in the office, to confuse and discourage contributors… Contributors are copyright owners, they have legal right to protect their work from abuse, to be paid until last cent and to dispose of their account on their own free will… Nobody can deny this.

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Hey All,

Another quick update to let you know that we’ve begun the process of item disabling and notices will be going out to affected authors in the next few days as the process concludes.

There have been a few comments here about how to remove items and who is responsible for that removal. Here are some general thoughts for you:

  1. Any author can remove any item at any time that is part of their portfolio, they do not need Envato to do that for them.
  2. Any author who has received notification that their items are being removed as part of our library refinement process will receive a payout for anything owed to them. Please make sure your payout information is up-to-date.
  3. Item removal does not equal account deletion. Authors are still free to upload items to other marketplaces and are still subject to the terms and conditions they agreed to when they became authors.

We will also be reopening portfolio submissions soon. Uploading for authors who are already approved will also be reopened in the not-too-distant future along with access to new bulk management features and instant uploading.

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Unreal, I just received the email to download images from Photodune that they will soon not be available. SO… I go to download them and find that they have already been DELETED by the staff!

Are you seriously kidding me Envato? We paid for those photos and you should at least provide us (the buyers) a direct link to the original author so we can get a hold of them if we want to download them one last time.

This is pure nonsense what Envato is doing to their entire marketplace. They refuse to “really listen to us”. More and more marketplaces are starting to benefit from your mistakes.

I am so disappointed and then we just get a thread or email from the staff saying “We are truly sorry that you feel this way about our new policies” Seriously have you seen how many members you are losing?

NOT HAPPY, with this entire marketplace.I would rather give my money to a marketplace that cares and allows us to thrive and be happy and YES they DO EXIST. Envato no longer controls the internet marketplace. Competition is here.

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And there is another issue. We have a client that has our theme and he want the images, naturally we sent him the links were to buy them on Photodune (way buying all images from Photodune before this frenzy) and well when he got there he saw those prices lol got really angry and now we are doing everything humanly possible to calm the client down just to not get a bad rating a review…

Now my question if we get a bad rating will Envato remove it, since well… it’s not our fault that the prices went up?

Cheers

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Deleting more than 1000 files one by one is mission impossible. Provide me a tool to do it at once, I’ll do it. I do need Envato to do that for me.[quote=“jamesgiroux, post:161, topic:90127”]
Item removal does not equal account deletion.

That is not clear. Your first and the only official e-mail left me account for buying, for having badges, but if I have to reapply as an already approved author, that means I am no longer approved. Right? Am I approved, or not?
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Could you provide information what does the term “reapplying” mean? Some tests, best sample of work, annual fee? Anything similar, or different, any new condition? What if somebody re-upload the same files again? Your intentions are still not completely clear. I am not sure about my status, approved author who can start uploading, or not newly approved author, have to wait to be approved? Please, more timely and accurate information - less misunderstanding and problems. Thank you.

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What’s the reason of hiding this post ? It is almost in the same tone as Moderator’s "kick out from the party’ explanation of the contract. This man fights for his right to be paid for his work, you should give him Copyright Ninja badge… Ok, words “cowards” and “idiots” are not decent words, but you did send e-mails from accounts that cannot be replied, that was rude as well. You should show some understanding for him.:innocent:

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Yes, probably I am wrong, but you can not blame me. Team announced they wouldn’t defense and explain decisions (it was bad decision), but they needed somebody from inside, who would defend their decisions, as an author and as a person. I think you are The Man. You put a lot of non-official and colored explanations, easy to be denied by staff in case of need. Salary for moderating? Maybe nothing, but something for sure… At least, new shiny badge and promoting yourself as an author, getting along with staff, good for sale…:grin: I believe you are not staff member, but you must be very close to them, otherwise you wouldn’t act exactly like staff member in every situation.

You didn’t read carefully, again… I didn’t assume you were not aware of any other stock sites. It was my universal recommendation to live bad place and to focus on better one… I know you have 140 files on Pond5, 77 on Shutterstock, 24 on Depositphotos, 104 on Videoblocks, 110 files on Motionelements… but your badge, the 5th in the 1st row says you are an Exclusive Author: Sells items exclusively on Envato Market. I was confused at the first moment, but now I am sure you found legal way to be exclusive on one, and sell on other markets at the same time. Special agreement with the staff? One man - several portfolios? You know the way, you are Copyright Ninja. Anyway, I don’t care, it’s not my business.

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When can I expect payment for my non commercial images? (non-exclusive and under the minimum). 7 weeks and still waiting for an answer.

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What a JOKE envato is! Worst customer service, horrible business to remove whole accounts. Can’t be to upset considering of the 10 micro stock sites I’m on, Envato was the lowest performer. Cant’ wait to see when this company folds.

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OK, I received an email informing me that my portfolio has now been removed. I checked and can confirm that it is so. But in the same email, I was told to “refer to our forum post for more information (including information about balance pay out).” Why can’t Envato just tell me in the email when to expect a payout instead of directing me over to this forum? You indicated in your post that “any author who has received notification…will receive a payout for anything owed to them.” So, is payout automatic? Do I need to initiate it somewhere? Can you please advise how long it will take Envato to payout any balance owed to me following deactivation of my files?

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Me too, I received the same email. The funny thing is that the email tells us to “”“refer to our forum post for more information”"". However, when I clicked the link on the email, there is nothing new. It’s all a SCAM!