Earnings Report discussion (December 2022)

Don’t know dude. As I said I’m no tax expert on international level. Tax laws can be always changing in every country.

We are even less tax experts but we see that is possible on other websites/services provider but for Envato is not possible or they just not care. Also, for me is unreal that the Envato (company who is made millions per month) has only 1 person (Ben) who is a “bridge” between us here on the forum and the rest of the company.

There are moderators who are reading all this but the real “connection” to Envato team is just 1 person and chance that someone actually see what the authors are talking/are complaining about is very low.

But I know if I make my own shop, I will not pay any withholding taxes.
So it’s really a question if I agree to pay more than 60% (taxes and fees) for Envato audience or not.

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As per the law if you make money from US then you have to pay the withholding tax for US. No matter where your shop is. Something similar to that is being set up by lot of countries nowadays.

For example, say you run your own subscription service like elements, you cannot sell to customers in my country without paying the taxes and setting up your company offices here.

I couldn’t even buy subscription for Envato Elements myself here in my country from past year because of the new law here.

I’m with envato from the time they paid only 25% to the authors. So it is actually our choice rather than envato’s. We have to choose…

:grinning: How exactly they will force me to pay their taxes? Government will search for every small fish to block their sites?
Moreover one of the hugest site in industry of saling digital goods (I can’t name it due to the rules of this forum), that is based in the USA doesn’t collect withholding taxes. :man_shrugging: So it is not a mandatory if you care about authors and try to simplify their lives.

Exactly, for those 25% fee I have huge growing audience. Now I have only growing competition. :sweat_smile:
And of course, it’s all our choice. I don’t understand people who asking Envato to do something…

There goes doing everything according to the law. :grin:

I also know about them. Have you ever noticed that they don’t pay the same amount for each sale of the same item. May be they are deducting taxes without letting you know. :thinking:

You should follow the local law. If USA or other country push me to pay their taxes to sell to their customers, I will increase the price to those customers. It’s not my business that their government want more money.

It’s not that site. I mean the site where you can put your own price, even $0, make discount codes, can create your own independent subscription model, and have maximum 9% fees or 3% if you sold $100,000.

Wrong - lets go one by one:

  1. I am talking about Envato Elements now - which is 100% Australian Company withholding Taxes for ATO (Australian Tax Office) - nothing to do with USA or est of the world.

  2. USA Sales Tax → I quote:

“Sales tax laws for marketplace facilitators are quickly covering the United States, holding online marketplaces responsible for calculating, collecting, and remitting sales tax for transactions made on their site”

There have been significant changes in the US in recent years (around 2019). The US government decided that platforms of this type (such as Envato, Etsy, etc.) have no right to leave sellers without assistance in tax matters and FORCED them to collect the Sales Tax due for a given State and pay it to the appropriate tax offices.

PS. By the way, you should be glad that the USA forced the supermarkets to do this, because otherwise you would have to pay the taxes yourself, and let me remind you that in the USA each state has different tax regulations - so you would lose a lot of money on accountants and lawyers.

Now You know where they have been before? :slight_smile: And you can ask: “why this law? what’s about is this?”

quote: “Ever since the Supreme Court’s Wayfair decision, state governments have been passing new sales tax legislation that applies to remote sales and online marketplaces. Why? The digital economy is booming; there’s a lot of potential tax revenue to bring in. Of course, it’s all about the Benjamins.”

Who’s next… oh yes - @CocoBasic

Oh this way yes? Following this line of reasoning, we can expect Envato to move its headquarters to some tax haven. Let it be that it happened → a given location will always be unsuitable for someone, Australia will not suit one person and Malta will not suit another.

By “impossible” I meant changes at the government level in Australia, such as a drastic reduction or abolition of the tax → which is impossible for Envato to change (but possible for Australian Government but let us be serious here.)

You have no idea how complicated this is - but to be 100% fair… yes → they could do this for sure (with huge → I mean HUGE costs). My company is my business, I have 10 other companies - you can’t compare me as an single person to Envato with hundreds of employees and physical assets.

and in the same day I am out from the platform like EVERY other author who will see ZERO USD revenue on his account. Simple, no numbers needed here.

I am not saying it is not → I am just saying that if Envato will male Limited Downloads Subscription there is HUGE chance the comptetitors will win and Elements will go down hard.

So we have to find the solution without changing “Unlimited downloads” model - I want to earn at least twice more comparing to what I am getting now but I also use my brain and I feel the business.

correct - this is the point I raised in this topic few times.

One more thing @CocoBasic - > Maybe you should move your business to another country - for example if you move your business to UK you will pay 0% taxes selling on the market and 5% for Australia via Elements → Why move the whole company → You move yourself :slight_smile: sounds more reasonable. I would like the Envato to move to Cambodia - for real - there are no taxes at all and you pay the tax only if you want to… we can tell such stories whole night.

And last thing to all of you people - do not raise the international tax law here → believe me - this is TAX MAZE - I am on it since 3 months with my accountants and lawyers and I know how this hell looks like :slight_smile:

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My country is not in EU but I have 2 countries near me which are in EU (one on 5km and the other 50km of my city) and I can pay much less taxes if I move there - but you are missing the point - I am not “fighting” here only for myself - I think we (Authors) are all in the same team here, right?

Envato is doing business 100% online (if I am not wrong) and am sure that they can move easy business outside the country (they do not have to physically move their employees).

And one more thing (probably you have not read all my posts) - there are services/websites which are working on same way like Elements (re-selling our own items) which you can use (for example if you want to sell over your own website) and you will pay only 5-6% no matter from which country is a customer and there is no other taxes (of course, there is a tax in your own country or in the country in which is registered your company - but that is something else).

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Also you have totally miss-understanding what @secondfalseiteration was talking about.

The point is that we are now paying 30% tax to AU if our customer is from Australia on Marketplaces and that was no there until recently (this year I think) BUT we are paying 30% on Elements from first day (I am paying from 2018 - then I have start) - how that is possible?

Screen Shot 2022-12-05 at 12.25.05 AM

*Update - here it is (3 months ago) https://help.author.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000424886-Withholding-Taxes-with-Envato-Elements-and-Envato-Market

UK mentioned in my latest post also is not in EU anymore. EU is not an argument. What I am trying to say → it is easier for you to move your business (you can open almost any company in most countries remotely) than for Envato move their business.

Let’s make it even easier → tell me which one from the options below is more logic and economically reasonable:

  1. Envato to move their business and make happy 50% Authors (and other 50% not happy)

  2. Every Author unhappy with Australian Residence of Envato is moving his business to the most friendly country (with good tax treaties with Australia) - and then 90% Authors are happy (50% base + 40% of those who moved their businesses) - there is only 10% left - lazy kids waiting to give them everything on the plate.

I bet for nr. 2.

Me too - so I am trying to explain you that talking about “moving Envato” to the other country is a waste of time → instead we should go back to our earnings and what could be do to make them better. Focus on things that are “changeable” → moving Envato to other country is a fairy tale (unchangeable for us - Authors)


I don’t know - for me looks pretty solid.

Offcourse - but let me ask you → what is your knowledge about “residency” tax laws or “foreign branch of the company” regulations in other countries?

I am telling you again - focus on “changeable things” :slight_smile: for me, for you, for all Authors.

First thing is first - Envato Elements is not reselling our items → They have our license to offer them on their platform for specified money ammount (share). This is very big difference.

Show me these websites and Bet I will find the truth in max 30 minutes (time needed for me to read their terms).

You can ask the same question to any tax expert and you will hear the answer like: “I have to read latest changes in Australian Tax regulations” → what is that means? → Envato is not collecting the tax for themselfes but for Australian ATO.

Tax laws are changing … get ready for this … → EVERY DAY - in some countries you have new tax changes every single day! :slight_smile:

I am going to sleep for now :slight_smile: I am not your enemy - never - I am your friend → If I was your enemy I wouldn’t tell you all those things and I would leave you in this dark room named “no knowledge” :slight_smile:

My friend, I am afraid that you even don’t know how the Elements is working (and why we are paying those 30% to AU government) and I will stop here because it pointless to go forward. We can not discuss more when you don’t know the basics, sorry (first thing is first). And when you understand/figure out that part (you “will find the truth in max 30 minutes”) I will provide you a super simple solution how our arguments can be changed and we will need to pay only once the 30% AU tax for each new item which we are selling over the Elements and they can continue to (again) re-selling our items.

Good night.

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You are talking about the people who own Envato Elements site. So do I.

Lol. There are dozens gateways that handle all of this.

If a country force you to pay their taxes for their customers, you just rise your prices for this country. That is how it should work. It shouldn’t be our problem that US or AU have such a law, it’s a problem of those, who live in those countries.
Every business shifts its costs to its customers. That is how it works. Big Mac in McDonalds doesn’t cost the same price in different countries, just because of that.

But the problem is that Envato treat us not like partners, but like their customers too. So they shift some costs of their business to us, instead of rising the price for Americans, or instead of rising the price on Elements and handle all AU taxes on their side, and make us earn fixed 50% from Elements (without any difference in what country do we live).

I am out of this discussion - this is like talking to the wall (to some of you guys) - with all the respect - I offered you to focus on important things that could be done like in next month (for example challenges for extra $$$) which means we could get the opportunity to earn more fast (which is possible because Envato is doing some contests from time to time so regular challenges are highly possible).

But no - you would like to talk about 30% tax - moving company from place to place and talking about extremely hard, long term and almost impossible things.

What is possibility? → more possible is that Envato create for us some challenges so we can earn more than they move their company or AU reduce their taxes.

Do this more - and only thing you will get is explanation why Envato won’t move to tax haven and why AU won’t reduce their taxes. Very nice.

are you incapable of estimating the probability of what you are asking for? Enough for me - you can continue this storm - I will wait what happens next - with cup of British Tea :slight_smile:

Hi @BenLeong. There’s a delay on Elements Dashboard. Latest update of earnings report is from October 31.

@PeakStar You are right, we should be talking about topics that less complicated. Talking about topics that don’t make sense in a business perspective will not make Envato listen to the authors.

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This is what I was also trying to explain. More and more countries are enacting Royalty Withholding taxes. So it is not possible for moving companies around. Even then it doesn’t matter.

Here some people misunderstand Royalty withholding taxes. It is something envato have to withhold from your earning rather than take it from the customers.

For some individuals making thousands in a year the workarounds might work. But if you are moving millions like Envato, then there is no workaround. They have to stick with laws of the land they are doing business in. It doesn’t matter if they move the business to any other country.

Lets say they moved their company to some tax haven country. Still they have to withhold taxes for the earnings made from countries like US and AU. It will be like either they have to cover the taxes or put it on us authors like now. And the later is the only possibility unless otherwise we are day dreaming.

English is not my main language and maybe sometimes I don’t use the right words but you said it correctly here:

and that is what I meant about “moving” Envato (I said that they no need to be move physically).

And I can send you links to those websites/services (in DM) which I am talking about which are taken 5-6% and actually they are earnings/doing a whole business with that 5-6% - that means they are paying even less tax because they are making income with that 5-6%.

And now, because obvious someone (the most authors) is not understanding why there is AU tax at all - I will explain.

We (authors) are paying that AU tax only when we sell to a customer which is from AU (Australia). From 3 months ago we have that tax on also on Markets (I have shared a link in some of my previous posts). So, when on the Marketplace, for example, customer is from Poland - there is no AU tax - right? But when we sell it to a custom from Australia there is AU tax - right?

Now the right question is - why there is AU tax for any customer on Elements? No matter if the customer is from Poland, Japan or AU - we are paying for every customer 30% tax (that is in my case - some other are paying less). And the answer is that you are selling your all items to Elements (which is a AU company) and because that you are paying that tax. Not because you are selling to a customer from Poland, Japan or some other country - that tax is because you are selling to Envato (Elements) and they are re-selling your items to “final” customer. Do you understand now why there is AU tax even when the customer is from Poland? But the problem is because the Envato/Elements is buying all the time again and again your items (and you are paying all the time the tax - for each new customer).

And as I promise, I give you here a quick solution for that - how we can pay only once the AU tax for any of our items. With the current system/agreement/deal (or call it how you want) Envato is “buying” from us all our items for each new/returning customer and you are paying all the time the AU tax - multiple times for the same items. Envato should change the agreement/deal and say - ok, we will buy all your items for a fixed price once. In that case, we (authors), will pay tax at that value once (because the Envato is AU company) BUT we will allow Envato to sell it unlimited time to any customer and give us some % of earnings. At the moment when we leave the Envato/Elements - the agreement/deal is not valid anymore and our items are removed from Envato Elements.

So, with that solution above you will start immediately to earn 5% more (some of us will start to earn 30% more).

So, with solution like that - you will live/have company in your country (not opening 10 companies around the world) and have much less stress and headaches.

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A challenge?

Where everyone produces and contributes, but only 2 or 3 win?
Its like make hundreds of creatives to work more and just reward 2.

hmmmm. I see!

I prefer the change in 50%-50%. To something more respectful to authors like 60%-40%.
To earn 40% of what I did considering that Im already paying 30% of taxes is really good to envato.

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I understood you very well → but still → incorporation of the new company remotely looks totally different for small business like me and for big business like Envato. I am telling you again - not that easy and very expensive. Envato can register new entity remotely in … literally 5 days (with all documentation, ready to go) - but do you know what’s next? Do you ? :slight_smile:

Stop talking and send it to me - I am 300x more curious than I was at the beginning.

I am lost - you are talking about Elements or Market? Explain me this - I quote:

" With Envato Market, you are selling directly to the customer. When you sell to a buyer based in a country with royalty withholding taxes, they will apply"

Source → https://help.author.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000424886-Withholding-Taxes-with-Envato-Elements-and-Envato-Market

not. There is no action of me selling my items to Envato at any point of the process - from the law perspective I have not signed any sell/buy agreement, → all copyrights to my works stays on my side at all times (and Envato is confirming this in their help guides).

I quote:

“As an author at Envato, you have the opportunity to create and license your original content to our global customer base. This means that there are legal responsibilities associated with licensing items through Envato platforms that you need to adhere to, so we can ensure that we keep our community safe and respectful.”

source → https://help.author.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000472086-Your-Legal-Responsibilities-as-an-Envato-Author

and again here:

“Envato’s role is as the service provider of the platform. The items on Envato Market are uploaded at the direction of you, the author. We provide the platform services; we do not take ownership of the items.”

->>> “(…)we do not take ownership of the items.”

source → https://help.author.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000472086-Your-Legal-Responsibilities-as-an-Envato-Author

I was talking about this few posts ago → there is “licensing” process, not selling to Envato. To sell something you have to own this first - otherwise you are only the middleman (for example basing on permission or license)

I have one question for you → did you filled up W8BEN or similar tax form on envato? Because from my knowledge the first person to pay 30% tax is the one who did not filled such forms (which is clearly stated by Envato) - maybe this is your problem. For this looks like you are not familiar with Envato guidelines (we have examples above)… maybe you should? This is really friendly advice :slight_smile: