I’m certainly behind the point of tapping into a new customer base of agencies etc. But I think Envato overreached its goal with the aggressive advertising campaigns on Envato Market and Dumping prices.
The strategy should be to grow elements steadily without hurting Envato Market too much.
It’s shocking to see on my elements earnings page that for 30 items I earn below $1.
I’m just worried about the future. Maybe my concern goes away if Envato shares more information about its strategy.
Okay but you guys need to actually have 3D files available on Elements, not the “pick an angle and get 2D” approach. A 3D asset is a 3D file, it can be manipulated in 3D and USED in 3D.
As it stands and since I have a disability, I can not be realistically expected to have to position the 3D object for each of the up to 200+ positions and download a single image for each angle to then have to use software to stitch them. This is not reasonable especially for users with physical challenges.
All this trouble is encountered when you offer the 3D assets as actual 3D assets on 3Docean. PixelSquid is TurboSquid so why aren’t TurboSquid’s assets on Elements? I am sure you can see that there is a material and substantial difference between actual 3D asset and what you are offering which is a still 2D image.
“yes Elements doesn’t include support, no, most users don’t care about that.:”
You could not be any more wrong on this point therefore it shows me how out of touch you are with the state of the market and what it takes to keep going. Most themes and plugins do the same thing in just different colors or with different pictures. If creators can not keep up with creating innovative and useful solutions that differentiate them, then all you will have is a ton of competition from other creators offering substitute products.
Envato isn’t the problem, the problem is everyone trying to do the same thing as each other and crowding their own customer base. I have an Elements subscription and it lets me test out themes before committing to them. Most assets I download remain UNUSED. This is typical of most Elements users. We taste it, we don’t like it, we don’t use it. In fact I will have you know that there are PLENTY of broken and unusable items on Elements, and may of them are deliberately left broken.
Why? Because then the creator makes money by up-selling them on their own product to have the latest updates and support. Yes it’s a bit shady when done deceptively, but here’s an actual idea that will help you:
Promote your support. Put your product out there on Elements so people can get a feeling for what you make and let them use your theme. Most users are just going to keep downloading a theme until they find something they like. At that point they will commit to making their actual website with that theme. When they have invested time and made the face of the firm your creation, they are DEFINITELY going to want support for this theme to keep it going and working the way they want.
SUPPORT IS THE KEY TO YOU MAKING MONEY. MARKET SUPPORT ON YOUR ELEMENTS PRODUCTS.
That person who paid you .18 cents most likely isn’t even using your theme right now. They downloaded it, looked at it as their site theme, then most likely decided it didn’t it him or her. If they like it and use it, then eventually they will want to get some support for it to do advanced things. That .18 cent sale would potentially earn you some much bigger number because they will buy your theme off the Marketplace to get your support.
With change comes different strategies and if you can’t keep up and innovate, you’re going to be left behind. When everything is just the same of everything else, why would a customer want to pay so much upfront without essentially making sure it’s the right fit. Put UNIQUE products EXCLUSIVELY on the marketplace and put the rest of the cookie cutter stuff on Elements because really how many plugins on the Market do we need to do fancy text?
Some of you seem to be worried about envato members downloading everything from the market.
Let’s be realistic, that’s not practical, huge waste of resources (hdd and time) for little compensation. I’ve been an envato client for long now, and I’m an early envato elements subscriber.
I don’t know how much you get from your items in envato elements but I can surely tell you that envato elements authors got more money from me than it would have been possible otherwise in the envato markets.
Here is an example, I rarely buy templates, and by rarely I mean I bought two in like the last 5 years, one was awful experience the other is constantly being updated, so envato elements is not an option here.
But I’ve downloaded several envato elements templates, just to test them, see how something was done, test the platform they were done for (ie. opencart).
So those authors got some money from a client that they would never see a single cent for.
I’m sure that there are plenty of people like me.
So let’s say that envato make it expensier, or less attractive to join elements, YOU loose money.
Hi Ooops, thanks for voicing your perspective! Definitely it adds to the idea that we Elements subscribers are mostly just fiddling around and sticking to a couple things we end up liking.
I want to add a secondary compelling thought for creators about my perspective on how they can get me to buy more of their assets from the Market. I came across a theme that I really liked on Elements and it was done exceptionally well. I was compelled to find more of he author’s products but they had a couple of items on Elements vs a more substantial range on Market or CodeCanyon. Well, since I already tested out this creator’s items on Elements and thought they were so well done, I had CONFIDENCE IN THE CREATOR that all the paid products would be just as good if not more so. So I made the plunge and bought a few things directly and I was happy to know the products were just as expected.
The moral is that by offering a smaller range of excellent products on Elements, you can build your brand and reputation so that those Elements users will buy products from your larger range on the other platforms. If you make a form plugin and your competitor does too, I will be more likely to buy it from you because I directly know the quality of your work and service vs the competitor that I have not tried or who had poor products on Elements.
Thanks for your comments, Tom. Envato has introduced Elements as a subscription alternative because we see this as a way to grow the lifetime value of customers. Elements by design provides customers with a ton of value, but it also ensures a recurring revenue stream for authors.
If we take a look at any one transaction, it fails to show the true value of a subscription setup like Elements. With Elements, you are buying into a revenue stream rather than a one-time transaction. So, when you compare the value of a Market customer vs an Elements subscriber, you may see less from the subscriber in the first month, but more in their cumulative lifetime revenue.
Elements has also quickly become a valuable resource to a growing number of customers new to Envato. In this way, Elements has also created an ever-increasing source of additional revenue for authors - for example 1000 subscribers who download an item on Elements they would never have purchased from Market unlock earnings potential for Authors that didn’t previously exist.
Finally, Envato Elements is a long-term play. We’re looking at industry trends and buyer trends, and trying to build ways to ensure that authors are earning today and well into the future. It’s about bringing more new customers and subscribers into the Envato ecosystem to increase the earnings pool for all Authors. We’ve run tests and provided evidence that Authors are earning more with Elements + Market than on Market alone, and we have confidence that this is very much in support of our mission to help authors earn a living doing what they love.
When we run tests, we only use a subset of customers/subscribers so we have a control group to check against. We ran an experiment that clearly showed Elements WordPress authors earning more on Market and Elements combined. We’re making this change because not only do authors earn more but subscribers are more likely to stick around longer or subscribe in the first place because they have access to all items.
We asked Elements WordPress authors if it was important to them to earn as much as they could from Elements. Overwhelmingly, they said yes. They want to earn as much as they can from Elements and we weren’t surprised by that. Limiting access to annual subscribers only means authors are blocked from earning as much as they can from Elements. With WordPress and After Effects authors having access to 100% of subscribers, their potential to earn grows massively and as a result, the value of Elements to their earnings grows too.
Thanks for your great questions. We looked at all of these things. 100% of Elements WordPress authors’ portfolios (large and small) were accessible to a test group of Monthly subscribers. This allowed us to see the impact on their sales on both Market and Elements as well as better understand subscriber behaviour around conversion and retention.
Elements is an unlimited subscription, providing subscribers with the freedom to complete their creative projects. There are no limitations outside of our fair use policy, but overall we find subscribers want to do the right thing. The median number of WordPress items downloaded by the test group of subscribers during the entire test period was only 5 items, and we additionally have systems in place to help curb potential abuse.
Overall there was no significant negative impact measured on ThemeForest, while Elements WordPress earnings doubled, and Elements WordPress authors earned more from Market + Elements combined.
Thanks for sharing your experience with support. If you’re up for it, we’d like to explore ways we might be able to mitigate this for you and other authors experiencing something similar.
It is also one of the reasons we were asking about support requests. We wanted to get a sense from authors how monthly access impacted the requests. The majority said they stayed the same or were less than before. But that doesn’t mean that some authors didn’t experience an increase. Authors are not required to provide support to Elements subscribers and we’ve heard that most are quite comfortable inviting customers to purchase the item to access that support.
On your last paragraph, I think it’s worth mentioning that there’s a lot going on in the WordPress industry at the moment that present challenges to authors. While WordPress continues to grow, the pace of growth has slowed dramatically. Gutenberg is likely to have an impact on the definition of a theme and the role of plugins. Other CMS and website platforms continue to market aggressively for the same customers.
There’s a lot of consolidation in the WordPress industry that is further blurring the lines, especially between hosting companies and WordPress products.
We believe in the longevity of author earnings. We are already experiencing shifts in customer behavior as a result of what’s going on in the industry.
Envato Market is at the core of our product offering and we’re still increasing our investments here. At the same time, we’re creating new ways for authors to earn, like Elements and Hosted, and introducing recurring revenue options as part of our strategy to improve the long term prospects of authors and better support the community alongside some of those industry shifts.
We believe this multi-pronged approach will best help us position the author community for long-term success.
This marks the end of our period of active responses. If you still have questions about this or anything else, you can visit our Author Help Center to open a ticket with our team.
By trying to grow customer base envato will slowly degrade and ruin author base. I will never give my high quality items to elements. I simply cant afford creating After Effects template for a year and give it to elements.
My prediction of what is going to happen is you will see a big decrease in After Effects and Wordpress sales in envato market.
Authors will produce less of big high quality items as those items will not be worth developing for year or half year to be sold on low selling market or low earning elements.
In few years elements will be spamed with lower quality items. Market will be on a brink of extinction as authors will stop producing big items.
Thats what you will see if you let elements be what you want it to be.
Its not going to be a success. Not for authors. And if authors fail. Envato will fail.
I loved envato really much for many years but what I have been seeing for last year looks very bad. This system of subscription and market cant work together. You will see.
Hi @jamesgiroux we are sad to see that you haven’t answered our question, seeing that we think it’s very inportant to know for Market authors that are not part of Elements…
One more question that we have is that if you’re going to actively promote Envato Market on Elements the same way that you promote Elements in the Market with those top banners. Right now there’s no option to link or promote the author’s Market profile on Elements, or it’s really hidden, like in the wordpress items (buyers have to click the ? icon to view the market item with support included) we think that it would be better to make it more visible on the product landing with a banner. This would help to promote the Market items and help clarify the difference between the supported and unsupported versions.