Call for Collis Ta’eed, Envato founder:Please Separate Elements!!


#82

What’s the matter with you? Do you understand that you have no any rights to talk like that?
Authors have full rights to do whatever they want with their creations. I followed several of your post and I think you do not understand this simple thing.

Yes, you can be disappointed how the things are going. And can blame Envato that they decreased or ruined your business, because you have agreements with them. But it’s absolutely authors choice to offer their music for 16.50$.

But if you take it so personally, please feel free to cry on SoundCloud, where hundreds of people share their music under CC0 and CC-BY-3.0 licenses.


#84

I support +1


#85

I have the right to express my opinion just as you do.

And can blame Envato that they decreased or ruined your business, because you have agreements with them.

Envato is smart, they know how to exploit people to make profits from a model that benefits them the most. I have a right to point out how music authors are willingly agreeing to devalue their works in the name of “servicing a different kind of customer”. Many music producers’ share my opinion that professional corporate clients never asked for cheaper music licensing options. My business has not been ruined, but I do have the right to raise awareness to the long term dangers of subscription based licensing models.

There are many young authors who may not even really understand the deal they are signing. Others sign on for reasons I can not comprehend. I suppose they need a short term boost to their monthly earnings, but have they really thought about the long term consequences of their actions?

I really believe that the only way one can sustain a long term career in music licensing is through selling sync licenses, one at a time, one customer at a time, one project at a time. Unlimited music downloads for perpetual use (at the price Envato is asking) is insanity for all music creators. It’s just my opinion. We’ll soon find out I suppose. I just hope everyone really thinks about this issue.


#86

Off course, you can express your opinion.
I just feel a duty to point you, that your arguments become more and more not a serious thing. Actually you have one argument: 16.50$ is incredibly low price for ability to download their music. And repeat this over and over again, sometimes with UPPER CASE.
Do you really think that other Authors can’t read it, can’t understand what you mean? If you want to raise awareness, it’s better to find another way to do that. Find more arguments, more facts. Build an evidence base for those who already have Earning Reports from Elements.
But instead of it, you just start to find ways how to “pinch” them.


#87

hi indeed, this is a bit more complicated than this … let’s keep in mind that envato is not a non profit organization and as such they are just running the thing to increase their own money more than any other thing. Like most of the multi million dollar companies do. All these types of companies are looking for one thing, providing huge paychecks to shareholders and investors, always in the same logics, that is to say that workers or authors are just a way to get just this. Interest (or care as u mentioned) for authors comes second to say the least. You should also try to consider that some guys live pretty well out of this system indeed. Besides, most of the people who really live out of this marketplace are indeed living out of the money that they make from elements … (which is paying much more out of volume and forms of dividends). The real deal is that guys bing part of it are hand picked will all the unequalitarian side that this may bring to the table in the end …


#88

+1


#89

+1


#90

+1 Additionally the problem with Elements is that it creates a comparative grievance to authors who are not in Elements. Not only is the client diverted to Elements, but Octopusic is not in Elements. Therefore, double damage is generated with this web link design.


#91

While I am very tempted to chime in on the discussion why the “one size fits all sub model” is super destructive, let’s just try to stay somewhat on topic here and demand some answers from Envato. This traffic cannibalisation might not hurt all the markets equally, I suspect music to be especially vulnerable given the complexity of music licensing and the not so exactly careful and sensitive curation of Elements tracks.

However this topic is highly relevant for all the markets and it’s great to see authors speaking up and supporting a change.

Another topic that is very much related to this traffic cannibalisation topic is this one, please participate and write +1 to support: https://forums.envato.com/t/this-really-isnt-fair-we-need-to-solve-this/

As long as affiliate authors are not getting paid for driving traffic to the market that ends up in Elements instead, what do you think is happening? Yes they are prioritising driving traffic directly to Elements, probably first and foremost because of good commission but most likely also because they know they for sure that they are getting paid for their work. Who can blame them? I’m not tempted to advertise directly to the market either with the current situation.

The situation in the thread I’m linking to is very black-white, affiliate authors are not getting paid for their work driving traffic to the market, customers that ends up in Elements instead. I repeat, they are not getting paid for their work. Should we just ignore it and expect them to work partly for free advertising to the markets? The thread I’m linking to has only 24 users. Please use your voice and support there as well. For all we know this might be an even more destructive situation for the markets traffic than the top Elements banner.


#92

Yes, Envato is actively trying to screw you (and all non-Elements authors) over and steal sales away from you.

This is plain and simple and for everyone to see. Of course this is unacceptable and Envato should be held accountable for it. It’s a real shame that they chose to ignore the community and instead decided to actively work against us. Shame on you Envato staff!

In light of the very anti-author direction Envato has taken with Elements, we need to resist. Authors partaking in this masquerade are complicit. By joining Elements you are participating in the destruction of this community, and your own destruction down the line.

Attacking @SteelSound and flagging his posts for speaking an uncomfortable truth is just lame and counterproductive. His being vocal about our collective situation and the suicidal path some authors are pushing us all on, should be saluted… and heard, not flagged.


#93

Remember flagging a post unnecessarily only makes it more interesting to read :slight_smile: I do think Steelsound has some very valid and yes uncomfortable points that is worth speaking up and demanding a change for. But let’s not discuss pro or anti subscription here, it will only noise up the initial topic.

As for Envato staff I really think many are silently agreeing with authors here in this particular advertising topic. They can clearly see how unfair this advertising is to exclusive authors. I strongly encourage them to speak up to their leaders as well. It is many layers of unacceptable to how exclusive authors are being treated at the moment.

I just went non exclusive this month, mostly because I think I can earn more money being non exclusive but also because of the lack of respect I see towards long time exclusive authors. Hopefully a change will come soon, because I doubt it is in Envato’s interest to alienate their top authors which is also affected by all of this.


#94

Probably they will remove advertising when all customers move to the Elements.:sweat_smile:

Sense of it (from the fact that they silently agree :smiley: )? No action on their part!


#95

And I would not be so critical if the banner ads did not exist. Even Collis said “Yeah this is kind of stupid that we have this ad on everyone’s AJ page and portfolio, at check out.” People are are requesting that we “Build evidence”. The evidence is right in front of us, every day:

  1. The cost is $16.50 a month
  2. The advertising is right in our face every day, evidence points to the fact that Envato is saying “Hey instead of buying a sync license at the authors advertised price, just join elements and GO UNLIMITED”
  3. Evidence points to the fact that those working their referral business, are not getting commissions when they “refer customers” to market whom,are also lead to this banner ad and then they do not get a fee when people sign up to elements.
  4. Evidence points to the fact that no, Envato is not advertising to a “different kind of customer” which I assume is the ultra low budget youtube content creator, they are trying to poach all customers, even the one’s perfectly willing to buy sync licenses at $20 to $50
  5. Evidence also shows that these two products 1. Elements and 2. audio Jungle Market are in direct competition with each other, but one is getting relentless advertising on the others’ site.

#96

While I think Steelsound sometimes have an unnecessarily rude (so, possibly equally counterproductive) way of saying things, I also think that he have very valid points on this Elements subject, recently.

I wasn’t completely against a subscription model (in theory) and even tried to see some positive sides to such a model before music/sounds were grafted to it. I also understand that Envato, a private company, has a need to stay competitive with other companies, so I don’t blame them for trying something new, but…

The aggressive marketing behind the subscription service is far from respectful for exclusive authors (particularly for those who decide not to embark in Elements shaky boat, but also for those in it). I think this is sad, because Envato is a dynamic and creative company who could probably avoid to act like a soulless business.

I understood Envato’s idea to try to reach «a different kind» of buyers, but right now, many are simply lifted directly from AudioJungle!

To Collis and team: Thanks to ADP, I’m grateful to be able to make more money (while selling less items), but if Envato continues to advertise an in-house competitor directly in the cart of non-Elements authors (and continues to forget to pay affiliates to their real value!), do you think it will be good for your business reputation? AudioJungle is just a small part of the ecosystem, I know, but still… I’m sure you and your team know better. Just remember how you started it all: As creative and passionate souls. Visit that zone again? Fair solutions for the musicians and sound designers who helped to build one of the walls of your company are probably waiting for you there.


#97

There is no doubt, whatsoever, that this is the case.

True again.

The bottom line is there is a huge supply of authors and music. And many of these authors are willing to offer their work for pennies, which is fantastic for Envato and its customers.

In my opinion, it is not fantastic for the community of authors as a whole if it leads to a downward trend in the price of licensing music.

All @SteelSound is doing (in my opinion), is frequently and passionately arguing against the low-priced, unlimited download subscription method of licensing music, and advocating for the per-use sync method of licensing music.

That’s what forums are for. Sharing ideas and debating issues having to do with this business.

Is Envato’s emphasis on Elements exploitation of music producers when producers are willing participants? Perhaps not.

But a line has been drawn in the sand here, and exclusive authors who are loyal to Envato and sell their music only on the AJ marketplace are being cast aside. It appears to have been determined that the method of licensing that most favors Envato’s bottom line is Elements, regardless of the damage it is doing to those who make a living producing music.

When audio was added to Elements, the initial forum posts from staff offered tepid platitudes about how unlimited download, low-cost subscriptions would not cannibalize sales of authors who sell sync licenses on the marketplace.

And then the aggressive, relentless Elements marketing on the marketplace and poaching of customers began.

If nothing else, it’s time for Envato to revise its mission statement:

When the Community Succeeds, We Succeed.

Envato’s core value is to create a win-win for us as a company, and our entire community - customers, authors, staff and other stakeholders.

It’s time to remove authors from the community portion of that statement, because under the current circumstances, that mission statement is lip service and nothing more.

I am a longtime customer, author, and Envato supporter. For over a decade. I am disappointed in these developments and disagree with them.


#98

Guys please stay on the topic,
If you support please +1

Would be nice to get an official response from Envato
Why are they diverting clients from the market to elements, when they said they wouldn’t


#99

+1


#100

+1


#101

Totally agree with topicstarter!:+1:


#102

I support