Audio is Coming to Elements

elements

#617

I think the music was sold to the company, but as “writer” you never lose that “credit as writer (on a cue sheet)” with PRO’s because you were the original creator of the composition. The competition you speak of in some cases they bought out all the content. Envato should just make an offer to buy a bunch of tracks and keep all the subscription fees for themselves forever.


#618

Well why say he’s not earning anything from the subscription revenue?! Of course he’s not if he sold the track, and he’s not expecting any earnings either. Just saying he’s not earning anything from the subscription model without qualifying it, makes it sound like subscriptions are terrible because you won’t, or might not, make any money. Which you definitely won’t do if you forfeit subscription revenue for a one-off payment.

To make that a viable option Envato would have to estimate subscription earnings, and they’re likely to do so cautiously, and also factor in an element of risk to ensure they make a decent amount of profit. So you can pretty much guarantee that any amount Envato were to offer an author, would be less than they’d earn doing it the current way.


#619
  1. I find what I need here. So far, I haven’t had difficulty finding tracks on AudioJungle that suit my video projects and are usually within my budget.

  2. Ease of use. I like AudioJungle’s methods for displaying search results, refining search results, auditioning tracks, creating collections, and checking out once I am ready to purchase licenses. I have visited other stock music websites that offer outstanding music but have inferior, less user-friendly ways of previewing and organizing potential purchases.

  3. I sell music here. I prefer to buy from marketplaces where I am an active seller.


#620

Makes sense, thanks for the answer!


#621

I am not an expert in forum etiquette, so if this is slightly off-topic, please forgive me.

We’ve all spent considerable time debating and/or protesting the impending addition of audio to Elements. For good reason: self-preservation. Subscription models for music carry significant new risks for authors.

I appreciate Envato’s willingness to hear authors’ concerns that have been voiced here.

Most of this discussion has been heated and has largely consisted of complaints and/or criticism of Envato. I am as guilty of this as anyone.

Is there an additional thread worth starting that would be devoted to discussing ways authors can aid Envato in growing AudioJungle’s revenue and share of the royalty-free audio market?

I’m not talking about the most obvious way, which is to create superior music for video. There must be other ways Envato can benefit from our help to grow this business.

Gaining numbers of customers is one factor, but increasing revenue independent of the number of customers is another.

Earlier this year, I exchanged email messages with someone from Envato support who suggested several possible methods for marketing my work that I hadn’t considered. The support rep was extremely helpful and went to a lot of trouble to look at my portfolio, my website, and offer several great ideas. I was genuinely surprised at the level of personal attention I received. I mean, this is Envato 2018, not Envato 2012. I was impressed and grateful.

I think having a public discussion where authors and Envato staff discuss ideas and methods for improving AudioJungle (without divulging proprietary info., obviously) would be constructive.

It’s probably safe to say we all share:

  1. a love for our work
  2. the goal of being able to continue doing it
  3. the goal of growing our business

Since a fair amount of discussion on forums I’ve read is complaint-based, maybe it’s also a good idea to devote some energy to coming up with new proactive ways of making this business better that we may not have even considered yet.


#622

Being author number 37, i am not invited too. :smile:


#623

Envato protected here from every side. They actually will earn more (50% split) than from Elite Authors


#624

I wouldn’t say ‘from every side’… if they are losing the $7m a year that SteelSound envisages in his doomsday scenario, then that 20% isn’t going to make much difference. Yay, we’re only losing $5.6m! And although the money they’ll gain/lose is probably quite weighted towards the Elite authors (in that they’ll gain), it is going to be offset to an extent by all the non-exclusive authors who will now be getting a higher split.


#625

We can only guess what will be when elements comes and how it will influence to each of us. I belive envato will do what`s best for market and not to lose what they already have. I really hope they have professionals for every move they make. Yes, sometimes they will use more and give us less but it is their company and they can do whatever they want. We authors need to adopt to their rules and “inovations” as I am trying for almost 10 years. Btw I am also not invited and I m dissapointed a bit but when I see that @soundroll is also not invited who literraly raised AJ I am very worried. Invited authors have huge advantage in this model even I would love that element doesn t come at all. I m so happy to see envato listened comunity about the licenses so huge thanks to both sides. Good luck to all of us!


#626

Really tired of you behaving like a troll SSF. We all are. You have zero skin in this game as you are not producing music full time. For starters, I am not painting a gloom and doom picture although I do have a knack for being right. The moment college students showed me how NAPSTER free downloads worked, I predicted a major crash in CD sales. That did happen. That did hurt Artists on all levels except the very very top.

I have no idea how Envato is going to roll this out, but it’s clear as day this “Elements” model results in massive price dumping. These are just basic facts. The price to get stock music is going to decline fast and hard. Can we at least agree on that? You clearly believe that the loss in revenue from this subscription plan will be made up from more subscribers. I, and a lot of producers here, are very skeptical.

Indeed you are experiencing a 2nd revenue stream…for now. It takes customers some time to adjust and rethink their purchasing behavior. Eventually the “cost savings cream” rises up.

When you are faced with two choices:

  1. Buy a license from PZ for $20
  2. Buy a one month subscription for whatever they price it at $33? and then be able to download and use every track he puts in there under the “add license” tool

Which choice do you think any intelligent customer would chose?

This is common sense here folks, the price of music licensing is dropping big time because the largest stock music player in the world (I am sure AJ is in the top 3 in terms of volume of licenses sold) is dumping the prices down to fractions of cents, eventually. They are adopting the Spotify model of dealing music in many ways. This will not happen overnight, but buyers will catch on to this massive cost savings opportunity.

And yes, the 100 guys invited to contribute will be the big earners initially because only their music will be downloaded. But they too are taking a massive risk too because people eventually may just stop buying 20 30 40 dollar licenses from them because they can get what they need in “Elements”.

It’s kind of shocking that some of these music producers are electing to fix what is not broken and reduce their cut to 50%. All I hear from everyone is the same chorus “I really want nothing to do with this and wish elements would just go away, but If I don’t get involved I may not be part of the forefront of whats happening and blah blah blah…” Basically you are on the forefront and supporter of a massive price decline for music licenses, drop in your split from 70% to 50%, and you seemingly are a believer that eventually enough youtubers will come over and sign up to make up for less one off syncs getting sold.

Another common statement we’re hearing is hope: “Let’s just all sit back and hope for the best and pray this all kind of works out”.

In all my years of doing business on many levels, offering huge discounts and lowering rates for a service never resulted in more revenue.

I’d still like to know how Envato is going to court the corporate client who has a real budget for tutorials, explainers, etc. ? These people are NOT asking for a break in terms of what they currently pay, yet Envato is now saying “Hey Man for $33, you can go ahead and download a couple thousand of our best corporate underscores…you will be set for a long time!”…Or are they going to find a creative way to prevent that?

Yes indeed…keep praying everyone.

Promosapien, I hear you man…It would be nice to try to find a solution, but I can not come up with one?
Looking at the opportunity this creates for your small business. You now only have to spend $200 a year to get all things stock (mostly music as you said) unless you just want to be supportive and NOT change your buying behavior by still purchasing individual sync licenses. It’s a fair question: Do we rely on voluntary charity from video editors who feel sorry for us and actually have some money to spend on music? Or is there something Envato can do to get corporations who have money, to actually spend it?


#627

Maybe I found the soultion for keeping Promosapiens spend alive. Notice how the rules say “The subscription is for an individual”…So I guess that means companies and corporations can not subscribe to elements? See point 2 below…this is copy and pasted from their FAQ page:

Do any limits apply to downloads?

No limits apply to downloads! How amazing is that? Envato Elements is an unlimited download subscription, meaning that you are free to download as many items as you like.

As per our user terms, please remember:

1**. the subscription is for an individual**
2. no robots allowed. So that means no sharing of accounts or use of automated tools to scrape & download items.


#628

I have 100% skin in the game. Sure, I’m not producing music full-time, but I am producing video full-time… and although there are plenty of differences between music and video, the concept of audio on Elements and video on Elements are hardly unrelated are they?

You must be some kind of prophet.

Absolutely!

Not quite. I believe that the amount of subscribers will definitely off-set the loss in revenue to an extent, but it remains to be seen whether it will off-set it completely, and on an ongoing basis. My loss in revenue is off-set by my Elements earnings but I have enough of an open mind to know that might not always be the case, and it might not be the case for everyone.

Well plenty of customers have chosen not to subscribe to Elements… or they have subscribed to Elements and are still using the marketplace. If they were all ‘intelligent customers’ as you call them… how are all the other marketplaces still open? Sure, early days for VideoHive, but wht about GraphicRiver, Themeforest? Even better deal there… $60 for a theme, give or take.

Well that’s understandable. It’s the reason why the majority of artists are on Spotify, it’s the reason why Envato aren’t sending purchases out on cassette tapes, and it’s why you (and the rest of us royalty free people) are dumping from the rights managed people and the rights managed people are dumping prices from the custom people.

Did you ever offer your entire portfolio for $33?

Who uses 1000 tracks in a month?!

They’re doing that currently, and behaviour from the other marketplaces makes it clear that plenty of them are happy to carry on doing it.

Your concerns are nothing new. The majority of all comments in threads relating to Elements being launched on specific marketplaces (before it does) have been leaning towards the negative. The majority of all comments in threads relating to Elements being launched on specific marketplaces (after Elements has launched for a few months) have been leaning towards the positive or neutral. Maybe it’s best to wait and see what happens, as I’m not sure it’s physically possible for you to reword your same concerns over and over again. You’ve done pretty well at it so far though, I’ll give you that!


#629

Who uses 1000 tracks in a month? Lots of post houses do. Even if they don’t use 1000…it sure is convenient to have an extra 1000 downloaded into genre folders ready to be used for future projects!

Keep praying for the best!

“and it’s why you (and the rest of us royalty free people) are dumping from the rights managed people and the rights managed people are dumping prices from the custom people.”

What a ridiculous comment. You don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about.


#630

Surely you can see the similarities, you can’t be that naive?! So if I say subscriptions might be ok (to you, a royalty free producer selling tracks for $19 and up) then I’m wrong and too optimistic and contributing to the downfall of stock… and if you say royalty free might be ok (to someone selling rights managed tracks for $100/$200/$1000 and up) are you wrong? Or are you right?


#631

Hi @baileyherbert @Sarah_G

This seems very complex and diffuse for me. As there is an important context information between elements and the marketplaces i have 1 marketplace related question too. But i promise the elements discussion wont be disturbed.

The elements selling process (from an author view) includes 3-4 different contracts which are partial (un)coupled.

contract A | author ABC (items 1-100) -> envato
contract B | envato (item x) -> customer XYZ
contract C | envato (compensation [a]) -> author

exception case (customer hasnt downloaded anything -> distribution to all authors)
contract A | author (item x) -> envato
contract D | envato (compensation [b]) -> all author

Marketplace: Envato is a commisioner when a customer purchases an item.
Elements: Envato isnt the commisioner. Envato is the temporary owner, with the right to resell the items as often as they want/can.

An author sells the rights to resell (per item) to an indefinite price to envato. So contract A is an offer without commitment and with an profit-related attribute based on the distribution key.

Is all right so far?

Elements questions

Q1
If an author sells an item to envato for elements. Is it exclusive or non-exclusive?
A1
non exclusive

Q2
is there a new contract for every item (author -> envato contract case). Or one contract for all items?

Q3
How is the distribution process if the customer doesnt download anything?
The summary of all item points from the authors whole portfolio + all the rest authors portfolio points divided with the overall “customer doesnt download anything” amount or what is the computation base?

Q4
Will Envato collect the VAT from Elements or how is it handled?

Marketplace question

If the case is right and Envato is a commisioner in the marketplace, where can i find the judical foundation that a commisioner collects and holds VAT. My tax office and me are having a few tiny problems to seperate this little issue.
A reference to the australian or u.s. commercial law where this is regulated would be awesome as i can show these bureaucrats that its all correct and great.

Btw my grandma always said, never let the mckinsey guys come into your house, they will never leave it… :wink:


#632

Well, I think so? Except for the part where the author sells any rights. You’re not selling any rights with Elements, you have the full rights to the item, but you grant Envato permission to license it to their customers (essentially you’re selling licenses to them and they pay you an uncertain rate in exchange).

I believe exclusivity is not a thing on Elements but I can’t say for certain.

I’m curious what you mean by contract. You’re free to remove your item at any time, and aren’t bound to keeping the item on Elements. And I’m not an Elements author, so I don’t know further details about this.

My understanding is that Envato takes the cumulative earnings of all customers who didn’t download something during their subscription period, and splits it evenly among all Elements contributors.

Not really sure how European tax law works, but you can find some info on taxes here:

To be honest I’m not sure how Envato classifies itself on the marketplace after they moved to the US, nor am I in any way a tax guru. I’d recommend opening a ticket or emailing taxinfo@envato.com if that email still works…


#633

Hi @baileyherbert

Yes i meant the permission to “resell”. :slight_smile: The attribute of reselling implicates an earlier transfer. I cant resell what i never bought. Otherwise its a commission and thats not a bad thing so everything is fine. Probably i missunderstand you.

Is Envato now a reseller or acts like a commissioner in elements?

No problem. I will add a cry for help to Sarah_G in my previous post.

This contract modell was based on the “reselling” fiction, but any license with the purpose of business is based on a contract in general

No problem :slight_smile:

Thank you!!! This is great! Lets see what i find.

Yes i will do. Thanks for the tip and all your efforts! Have a great day


#634

Elements is all non-exclusive.


#635

Hi @SpaceStockFootage, I really would like to get into the Envato Elements, how to do it?

Or what should I do to get into the Envato Elements?

I have a large YouTube channel and SoundCloud. In a year they will be 2 times more, or more than 2 times. I could place a link to my portfolio in the Elements (if I’m on the Elements). And the Elements would get hundreds or thousands of new customers.


#636

We are limiting participation to a small group of authors with plans to invite more in the future.

…I’m assuming there might be some kind of way to apply once it’s launched, but you could always contact support and see what they say. Mention your subscriber numbers, I’m sure that might help.