Audio is Coming to Elements

elements

#471

Surely it sounds the opposite of communistic?! So if somebody downloads one of your music tracks, and a photo from some other author… you think you should split the revenue equally?

Elements has been going since 2016, so there is that.


#472

Even those on Elements share the same fears of losing sales on their main market, I never said that this is going to work 100%, I’m perfectly aware that I might face a drop in sales, that’s why I’m glad to be able to choose at least to opt out, it’s like being exlusive or not, it’s up to you, it’s a business choice and right now none of us can tell if it’s going to work or not, but at least I should give it a try!
Who knows, maybe in 10 months we’ll see Elements Items all over the internet and customers will start looking for something more unique instead of the same background/audio/websites that even their competitors next door are using to market themselves!
Those who buy on Elements should be aware that they are not going to get anything too unique if the same item is downloaded 10000 times, if they want something more unique they should go on the main market and pay more $$$.
I’m aware of that too, problem is that I’m forced to put my entire portfolio on both websites :joy:


#473
  1. He said absolutely nothing about revenue being split equally

  2. When someone who has actually lived under Communism describes something as sounding communistic, it would behoove you to defer to his expertise on matter

  3. When all revenues are pooled and then dispersed according to a seemingly arbitrary formula determined by a central committee of self-appointed experts, comparisons to socialism and Communism are unavoidable, in contrast to the current system whereby compensation is easily understandable and straightforward


#474
  1. He’s complaining that there’s a weighted value for items, so it stands to reason that he doesn’t want a weighted value for items… i.e. he wants revenue to be split equally.

  2. So by the same logic, it would behoove you to defer to my expertise on Elements? But sorry, a weighted value on items sounds absolutely nothing like communism. It sounds exactly like all the Envato marketplaces prior to ADP (that some item types are worth more than others). I didn’t hear anyone calling that communistic.

  3. There’s nothing arbitrary about it. It’s a very specific calculation based on item type, number of downloads and total number of downloads by individual subscribers. If the pool was split equally between everyone then sure, you could draw comparisons, but some authors are going to earn considerably more than others. As for the central committee of self-appointed experts… that’s just a ‘company’ in this case. I wouldn’t read too much into it.


#475
  1. You’re reading things that are not there. Read his post again. It’s the point system with which he has issues

  2. To compare the experiences of a couple months of Elements with that of years of life under Communism is ludicrous as well as offensive.

  3. The compensation formula is indeed arbitrary, as it does not assign fixed, accountable values to items.

Don’t you ever get tired of arguing for argument’s sake?


#476
  1. Exactly. So if he doesn’t want a system that takes the value of individual items into account, then he wants a system where a music track is worth the same as a photo, and a sound effect is worth the same as a Wordpress Theme.

  2. You and Lumen are the ones comparing things to communism. In no way am I comparing Elements to communism… I’m comparing it to the Envato marketplace, which I think is ever so slightly more accurate when it comes to analogies. It’s not offensive in the slightest… if he wants to start a thread on communism in general I’d be happy to defer to his wisdom and I’d never presume to know better than him, but surely you’re not naive enough to have now decided that Elements is just like communism, and that’s a fact, just because Lumen says so? It’s an opinion and I have every right to dispute that opinion. I personally feel that Elements is a lot closer to capitalism than it is to communism… should I find it ludicrous and offensive if anybody disagrees with that, purely because I’ve actually lived under capitalism? Doesn’t that represent something of a paradox… I mean both Lumen and myself can’t be right, but by your reasoning we can be?

  3. Sure, there’s no fixed value per download but that’s not possible in a system with unlimited downloads. The calculation isn’t arbitrary though, it’s pretty specific and well defined. Number of downloads by subscribers is the only variable.

  4. I wouldn’t call it arguing… I’m assisting people in dispelling myths and rumours based on assumptions and not quiete understanding how Elements works.


#477

Please, do not put in my mouth words, that i did not intended to say.


#478

So you do want a weighted system that takes into account the value of an item? It sounded like you didn’t… sorry!


#479

It sounds like you trying to argue without understanding the opponent opinion or what he/she intended to say. In my opinion, when someone paying for your product is a capitalist approach, and when someone calculating share, points, etc. sounds and looks more like communists approach to dealing with salaries in the past of my country. This is not direct comprassion, to be fare, but some elements of this system looks familiar.


#480

But Envato did that before… calculating the share and the points (price). Prior to ADP they set the price of the items and the share that you got from the amount the buyer paid. Nobody was comparing that to communism. Yes, this gets a bit more complicated as the calculation relies on how many items each subscriber downloads… which couldn’t really be compared to communism. The price and the share could be, but that’s nothing new.


#481

@SSF - You clearly are staunch defender of the subscription model. Please pitch to all of us right now how it will be beneficial to individual music producers long term. Please tell all of us how there will be more revenue collected then what is currently being collected on audio jungle.

How many people are subscribed right now? How many new subscribers are added each month? How many pay the annual fee verses the monthly fee? What is the retention rate of the customer? Meaning this: What percentage of elements customers sign up for $16.50 a month and continue to renew every month? Verses what percentage sign up , grab a bunch of “items” then don’t renew?

Finally, how do you feel about Envato never sending a copy of the license granted to authors? And how do you feel about Envato never sending data as to which customer downloaded what as compared to now, where we currently get an invoice indicating who the buyer is/ was for every transaction (sync license sold)?

As Ricky stated “No, so far we don’t see those kind of datas” - Why would data about end usage be withheld from the author and copyright owner of an “item”?

Lot’s of questions, please pitch all of us right now. We know you love this model and believe deeply in it. Tell us all why we should be “excited” about it and see it as a nice growth opportunity even though it’s clear as day the price to get music drops dramatically. We all know this and it’s also clear that the majority who have communicated in this thread dislike the model.


#482

Where did you get that from? Works for me currently… I have no idea if it will in the future, or if it will for you. I’m in no way trying to convince people that Elements is amazing, even though everyone thinks I am for some reason… I’m just pointing out factual errors, explaining how it works and how it’s working for me currently, and explaining how it doesn’t automatically mean that we’re all going to be destitute and living under a park bench in the not so distant future. If that comes across as me being a staunch defender of Elements then fair enough.


#483

Please answer my questions more thoroughly since you enjoy, as you just said, “explaining how it works”.


#484

Fair enough:

I’ve no idea. It might not be. As for revenue, there will be more total revenue if the revenue from the marketplaces and the revenue from subscribers combined, totals more than just the revenue from the marketplace. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but if the implementation of Elements didn’t result in increased total revenue, it’s unlikely Envato would have rolled it out to all marketplaces.

I’ve no idea. There was a few posts a while back with subscriber numbers and a few more details with regards to subscriber behaviours. I think it was round 20,000 at last count. that was long before video was added.

It doesn’t bother me but I’m assuming that’s an issue for some people? I rarely look at the invoices, does have some influence on PRO stuff?

The only reason I can think would be that it’s a lot of data. If there’s a specific and important reason you need the info, I’m sure it could be obtained… I’m guessing it is something to do with pro as nobody has really brought this up before when it comes to the other marketplaces on Elements.

This isn’t Dragon’s Den and I’m not trying to sell the concept to you! I don’t care if you like Elements or not… I just care about making sure people are basing their opinions on accurate information and they’re not spreading unfounded rumours or false info. I don’t love it in the slightest and I’m still not sure where you’re getting that from… just because I disagree with points you’ve made I automatically love Elements even though I’ve never said I had.

All I know is that I’m making more money than I was before Elements, so I definitely don’t hate Elements. I’m definitely seeing it as more of a positive than a negative at this moment in time, but that might change.


#485

Of course we need to have that data. If I see a company buying the most expensive broadcast license, well then I know the track is going on air, and probably is attached to a major brand, and most likely would pay a lot of Broadcast “performance royalties”. So I’d need to file a claim with my PRO, request nicely a link to the TV spot from the client and perhaps nicely ask for some more information about end client, ad agency, etc. I look at EVERY invoice for EVERY sale. I want to know who bought this? What country? What City etc. Rarely do I reach out to anyone for the standard license because I assume they are making a basic web/ youtube video.

So my question is this: On Envato Markets, a customer clicks BUY NOW, that automatically generates an invoice and is filed in our Statements section of our drop down menu. Why is that on the elements market, when a customer clicks download, then “add license”, the author does not get a copy of the “license” that was “added”? Why shouldn’t we know who is using our music or what type of license was issued?


#486

That makes sense then.

It’s a good question… but I’ve now idea. I just know how Elements works, I rarely know exactly why it works how it works.


#487

Oh oh! I can answer this one! :blush:

This is because you’re not actually selling to customers anymore when selling on Elements; you’re selling to Envato, and Envato is reselling to their customers. Hence why taxes are handled differently from the marketplaces.


#488

You learn something new every day!


#489

This response proves that either

a) you truly enjoy or cannot help but argue with those you’ve deemed your ideological adversaries OR

b) you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Let me try and spell this out for you one last time.

  1. The current model is Capitalistic, because fixed prices are agreed upon, per item, by the buyer, the seller (author) and the intermediary (Envato)

  2. The Elements model is Communistic, because the intermediary has become the seller, and compensation is no longer determined by INDIVIDUAL transactions between INDIVIDUALS but rather the allocation of financial resources by distributing compensation from the COLLECTIVE revenue by the CENTRAL AUTHORITY.

These examples could be fleshed out with more detail, but hopefully you now understand.

NRN


#490

Thanks for your questions and comments here. We hear you and understand the points you are making about the broadcast license and where to draw the line between Elements and Market. We’ve also provided an answer to this question to Elements authors privately and I’ve borrowed heavily from that for this response too.

We strongly believe in the future of Market and AudioJungle and want you to know that the risk to you is the same as the risk to Envato. We only earn when you earn and we’re watching the way customers respond to these changes as closely as you are.

Our continued focus is on growing the number of Envato customers who are actively purchasing. We know that there are many potential customers out there who visit Envato Market without ever making a purchase. You only earn when a visitor becomes a customer and we want to do our part to ensure that happens as often as possible. Elements represents a new opportunity for us to activate visitors who otherwise might not purchase from Envato, and increase the pool of recurring earnings for everyone.

While we recognize there are concerns around the 10 million vs 1 million broadcast audience allowance, we concluded this approach balanced customer and author considerations as best as possible with minimal potential impact. For any subscribers who contact us about higher broadcast usage, we will be directing them to purchase the Film & Broadcast license for the item on Market.

We came to this specific decision after reviewing the commercial factors, competitive landscape, customer research, and initial author feedback.

We truly understand the value authors place on broadcast use and we remember the long road to get these licenses on AJ (for the record, there are no plans to change that). However, it’s crucial to understand the upper tier broadcast licenses only represent a very small percentage of purchases on AJ, and the 10 Million tier makes up the smallest % of author earnings out of them all.

From a customer point of view, it’s less about actually needing broadcast use and more about providing subscribers a sense of ‘freedom’ with respect to the platform & licenses that we know they greatly value - freedom from license complications, freedom from having to explain limitations to a client, etc.

The same thing goes for ‘unlimited’ use for example - it’s more about the freedom to try things out, the freedom to be inspired, than the actual need for unlimited content. Most subscribers only download no more than a dozen or so items per month, and a significant proportion of subscribers don’t even download anything in a given subscription period, which still gets paid out to authors as a Contributor Bonus.

In other words, we believe the benefits authors and Envato will gain by keeping a strong Elements value proposition and attracting more customers will far outweigh any potential earnings impact on AudioJungle due to a very small proportion of customers no longer needing a broadcast license.

Encouragingly, this is backed up by what we’ve clearly seen so far with the recent video launch - overall, authors are making significantly more on Market and Elements than they were on Market alone. We don’t expect broadcast sales on AJ to simply disappear as a result of this.

Thank you for your questions and comments so far, we’ll keep reviewing your thoughts here and provide any further updates in the next few days.