A Transparent Treatise of Inconsistency in AJ Review and Author Processes

Very good and really enlightening post, that I think should be read by every AJ author to avoid misconceptions and some negative posts related to the subject!
Thank you

Hi Audio Jungle

“Inconsistency of stock music sites versus major production music libraries”

As a new member to the community I would like to offer up an opinion regarding the review process. Would it be possible to be more specific about a rejection rather than using ‘generic’ language such as the following…"did not meet our minimum requirements for quality and/or Envato Market policies. In order for submissions to be considered for sale they must be of high aesthetic and technical quality, unique to our library and cannot be in violation of Envato’s policies."
To me this is such a vague concept as, using a track which has just been rejecte. A track incidently that was accepted by two major music libraries (Sonoton & Jingle Punks)…we did not take terms as wanted to try Audio Jungle and retain ownership so we can also look at direct syncs ourselves. So having seen the ‘generic’ email rejection email we can only conclude that ‘inconsistency’ effects stock music sites versus library sites. I was under the assumption that stock music libraries were looking to ‘raise the bar’ and increase their credibility but now I am not so sure.

BIG thanks for the explanation.

Great Post ! Thanks for the explanations. I think most if not all authors trust that the teammembers take the right decisions but of course doubts are allowed, especially as any father or mother of a “songbaby” thinks he has produced the most awesome and cute baby ever seen on this planet. This is quite normal, so it hits the “parents” very hard, if the baby gets a hard reject.

Anyway, this is a marketplace and it needs to guarantee some quality standards in the library and to protect this quality is a hell lot of work, so my full respect to the reviewers.

I have only two points which I think could be re-thought:

  1. If there is a hard reject, the reviewer should take the time to explain this in much more depth. Just giving us one standard sentence (mixing quality / commercial standards) is to my understanding not sufficient and does no justice to the work the author has spent to create the rejected track.

Nobody wants an explanation if a track is approved, but if you want to improve your audiences learning curve - please reviewers - give us more flesh why you have decided to do a hard reject.

  1. It is very easy to hide behind “The Envato Team” - why don’t you tell us who was responsible for the reject ? It is not the envato team, infact it is never - it is one of 11 individual reviewers taking a decision.

Adrien, you are the man. 'Nuff said. :slight_smile:

Mindmovie said
  1. If there is a hard reject, the reviewer should take the time to explain this in much more depth. Just giving us one standard sentence (mixing quality / commercial standards) is to my understanding not sufficient and does no justice to the work the author has spent to create the rejected track.

Nobody wants an explanation if a track is approved, but if you want to improve your audiences learning curve - please reviewers - give us more flesh why you have decided to do a hard reject.

Thanks for the valid questions. They’ve actually been addressed in the past on forums, but we’ll recap here again and make sure the core info is retained in our upcoming FAQ article, in the Help Center.

One of the challenging realities we often encounter on Envato Markets is that many newer and aspiring authors anticipate the commercial stock industry to operate as a school environment.

For reasons of stock industry inexperience perhaps, they feel entitled to be taught and specifically explained why their work can’t be accepted.

Understandably, many novice stock authors do not immediately recognize that libraries and business organizations like Envato Markets exist firstly to provide a communal service platform, to facilitate bridging the needs of both buyers and sellers, to license digital goods. Not to teach people how to improve their skills.

For all the focus and investment in the community’s ability to conglomerate and discuss a wide variety of topics, a basic truth is that Envato Market sites should not be confounded with Envato’s established education sites, “the TutsPlus network”:http://music.tutsplus.com - and thus the review departments cannot provide customized feedback notices on item submissions that result in Hard Rejections. This is aligned with industry standards.

The rejection aspect of the review queue is not a free education service. This is just telling it like it is. :slight_smile:

So, simply, to effectively serve their purpose of keeping our queues efficient, our reviewers cannot respond as item critiquing agents or commercial viability tutors. That is not their job.

When processing many many thousands of submissions, It’s just not realistic to expect our review teams to spend additional and compounded time to elaborate custom critiques and feedback, even in significantly condensed form, where several aspects of a submission are deemed insufficient for acceptance.

And as mentioned in the first post, it’s been clearly seen that the bulk of items we hard reject are not able to accepted when resubmitted, even after we provided extensive feedback in the past. So it’s not a winning proposition for going forward, even if best intentions are very much present.

Therefore, to be clear, it’s up to each professional and aspiring author to understand and seek resources to learn how their productions could be honed and improved, when they cannot be accepted in our library.

Unquestionably, however, this principle does not disrupt the professionalism and respect with which Envato Markets strives to treat every submission received, from every interested author.

It is very easy to hide behind "The Envato Team" - why don't you tell us who was responsible for the reject ? It is not the envato team, infact it is never - it is one of 11 individual reviewers taking a decision.

There’s a simple answer to this, with two parts.

  1. For starters, saying "It is not the envato team, infact it is never - it is one of 11 individual " is not correct.

As mentioned in the first post:

In the queue, many of the items that we place on hold are ones that go through a second review without you realizing it.

Yes, it’s a team effort quite often enough, with second reviews for certain items, and senior review staff weighing in on reviews in a distinct capacity.

  1. Why are staff not listed on hard rejections?

Well, here’s a question for you … If we did tell you who rejected your track? What could/would you do, really? What action would you take?

Because in the past, when the names were actually listed, too many reviewers (not just on AJ) were often called out personally, both privately in emails and publicly on forums, receiving all kinds of personal requests, implicit demands for reevaluation, frustrated or angry emails directly, and even insults and threats at times.

Sadly this happened too often, to a point we could not allow it any further. As a result, a professional decision was made to keep Hard Rejection communications represented by the face of the company. We still stand by this decision.

That said, our Quality Team does track and monitor the rejection patterns of individual reviewers, internally, but making them public creates many more problems than it productively solves.

So we hope and trust you can understand this position and decision, in this sense. :slight_smile:

1 Like

thanks, that explains it.

Nice explanation Adrien, this thread should be a “must” for beginners. It would have definitely help me when I started :slight_smile:

Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

||+1295080|Marbury-Media said-||
Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

Sad about that experience. But the review teem is the only state righted to judge about qualiy and acceptance. So the only way is to trust in what they do, agree you with them or not or if they make real mistakes.

If this thread is still for discussion, interesting also, does review process run anonymously or not? I mean can reviewer see whom currently reviewed item is from - before he marks his final decision.

Ladanauskas said
||+1295080|Marbury-Media said-||
Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

the review teem is the only state righted to judge about qualiy and acceptance. So the only way is to trust in what they do,

Are you serious ?

||+1299278|Marbury-Media said-||
Ladanauskas said
||+1295080|Marbury-Media said-||
Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

the review teem is the only state righted to judge about qualiy and acceptance. So the only way is to trust in what they do,

Are you serious ?

Of course, I'm serious. Seems I don't understand you. Everyone of us hope his submission will be approved. But what to do if rejected - stop submit? or protest and fight for every rejection trying to prove them that it's acceptable? What do you mean.
Ladanauskas said
||+1299278|Marbury-Media said-||
Ladanauskas said
||+1295080|Marbury-Media said-||
Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

the review teem is the only state righted to judge about qualiy and acceptance. So the only way is to trust in what they do,

Are you serious ?

Of course, I'm serious. Seems I don't understand you. Everyone of us hope his submission will be approved. But what to do if rejected - stop submit? or protest and fight for every rejection trying to prove them that it's acceptable? What do you mean.

If you read my original post properly you will see that below par quality and over saturated sounds (toilet flush, wind etc etc that we are told AJ no longer require) are being accepted while high quality, original sounds are being rejected. I think what you are basically saying is reviewers are right, even if inconsistent just because they are reviewers ? I have no problem with rejections if it was a level playing field. But there seem to be inconsistencies with the rules. Surely you don’t accept that ?

||+1299294|Marbury-Media said-||
Ladanauskas said
||+1299278|Marbury-Media said-||
Ladanauskas said
||+1295080|Marbury-Media said-||
Bill_Miller25 said

I still think the review process leaves much to be desired.

Absolutely. I have zero faith in the review system here when HQ, original SFX are being rejected while other sounds like zillions of whooshes, wind, toilet flushes, rain, and other oversaturated sounds are still being accepted by some contributors.

the review teem is the only state righted to judge about qualiy and acceptance. So the only way is to trust in what they do,

Are you serious ?

Of course, I'm serious. Seems I don't understand you. Everyone of us hope his submission will be approved. But what to do if rejected - stop submit? or protest and fight for every rejection trying to prove them that it's acceptable? What do you mean.

If you read my original post properly you will see that below par quality and over saturated sounds (toilet flush, wind etc etc that we are told AJ no longer require) are being accepted while high quality, original sounds are being rejected. I think what you are basically saying is reviewers are right, even if inconsistent just because they are reviewers ? I have no problem with rejections if it was a level playing field. But there seem to be inconsistencies with the rules. Surely you don’t accept that ?

So can I get it as you assume different priority between authors?? Khm… Once I had whoosh effect rejected with reviewer’s comment that AJ library has enough of this kind of sounds. It was simple standard brown “fffshsh” with doppler and stereo, nothing outstanding, but such things sell well. And after then I saw pretty similar ones accepted. So what. It can easily be explained by fluctuations of that “grey shadows” scale which is described in the first post. Different reviewers can have different view, as it’s impossible to set all the nuances like at one head at one moment.

If in your case it happens so repeatedly that you guess your own (or others) personal unfair author’s relations with review (blacklisted or preferenced) - - just let’s wait for their answer to what I’ve asked in my previous post, it must clarify.

Anyway without trust in reviewers’ job I see no sense to submit.

This is a great post. I think that reviewers are making very difficult and awesome job. I am satisfied with the journey we are doing together, thanks to the Team. Good luck.

Yeah, I totally agree! Thanks to the team and envato!!!

Many thanks for this post! I have no reason not to trust the AJ team.This once again confirms the simple fact that the better the skills, the less rejections. :slight_smile:

RudVych said

Many thanks for this post! I have no reason not to trust the AJ team.This once again confirms the simple fact that the better the skills, the less rejections. :slight_smile:

Then you are misguided. It has NOTHING to do with lack of skill when it comes to rejections here. Do a bit more research and see what is coming in on the new sfx page and tell me in all honesty they are all cutting edge, original, high quality sounds that are needed. How many times for instance are AJ going to accept yet another rain and thunder sound ? Door shut ? Positive game hit ? etc because they come in all the time.

||+1307980|Marbury-Media said-||
RudVych said

Many thanks for this post! I have no reason not to trust the AJ team.This once again confirms the simple fact that the better the skills, the less rejections. :slight_smile:

Then you are misguided. It has NOTHING to do with lack of skill when it comes to rejections here. Do a bit more research and see what is coming in on the new sfx page and tell me in all honesty they are all cutting edge, original, high quality sounds that are needed. How many times for instance are AJ going to accept yet another rain and thunder sound ? Door shut ? Positive game hit ? etc because they come in all the time.

It is important to have not only the skills of making music (not so much), but also the skills of marketing, to feel the trend, the ability to keep productivity and the pace of the race… Some authors found themselves in the race, while others simply make the music (not sounds), create a new trend and not pay attention to fashion in the present… Remember Einstein quote: “If you want to see the results of their labor, then go to the cobblers!” :slight_smile: